UPDATE 10/19/2005: 9 months after the ticket, I got the appeal decision in the mail. I won!
Like many cities in California, San Francisco has been using Automated Enforcement Systems (a.k.a. “Red Light Cameras”) at many of its intersections for several years now. Although the stated purpose is (of course) for safety, the real reason is revenue. If you are the unlucky recipient of one of the citations in the mail (as yours truly recently was) then this website is for you. It explains your options and relates my experience with the San Francisco court system.
Your choices:
- The picture isn’t of you. The registered owner is who gets sent the ticket. If the picture is not of you, sign the attached affidavit saying that the picture isn’t of you. Don’t lie — you’re saying under the penalty of purjury that it’s not you in the ticket. DO NOT, however, TELL THEM WHO IS IN THE PICTURE. It’s their job to figure that out, not yours. Don’t rat out your friends and family.
- Pay it. If $371 is worth less to you than a lost morning in court, then just pay the ticket and move on. You may or may not want to do traffic school to keep the points from appearing on your license. While I’ve never done it myself, I hear the on-line version of traffic school is fairly painless.
- Trial + Traffic school. This is probably the best option for most people. Go to the clerk. Post bail (the amount of your ticket) and plead not-guilty.  Get a time for trial. SHOW UP ON TIME. When the court session starts, the clerk will allow you to have your fine reduced to only $50 if you take traffic school (with a $30 fee). For a total of $80, you’re done and the points are not added to your license. NOTE: If you’ve already done traffic school in the past 18 months, you’re not eligible to do it again. Sorry.
- Plead not-guilty. Lots of options here. You can skip the arraignment and demand your right to a speedy trial (within 45 days) by going to the clerk and posting the $371 bond. Sometimes, due to the short notice, the officer isn’t properly subpoenaed and won’t know that he/she needs to testify against you (this happened in my case). If the officer doesn’t appear to testify, your case is dismissed. Or, the officer could already be in court to testify against other people and will realize that she needs to testify against you too, and will testify anyway (yep, this happened to me).Or, you can go to your arraignment and plead not-guilty there. This gives you the chance to make pre-trial motions. This makes the process very drawn-out — expect your trial date to be many months in the future.
Pleading not-guilty
NOTE WELL: This takes a lot of time and will really try your patience. DO NOT EXPECT TO WIN. In fact, you should expect to lose. Sorry, but the trial court for traffic and other infractions in San Francisco assumes GUILT. Moreover, the red light camera systems are considered infallible and therefore beyond reproach. AGAIN, YOU WILL LOSE.
Don’t waste your time
- People often say that with traffic cases you should plead not-guilty and take your chances that the officer won’t show up. (If the officer doesn’t show up, your case is immediately dismissed.) I would agree with this strategy for all non-red light camera tickets. However, from what I can tell, the officers assisting with the red light camera prosecutions do not have normal police “beats”, and instead have a desk job, probably in the same building. This means they have a high liklihood of showing up.
- If you are planning to contend that you don’t run red lights, you are a safe driver, and you’ve never done it before, do not waste your time. (Most murderers haven’t murdered anyone before, either.) You will be found GUILTY. Your fine will be lowered to $300, but they won’t grant you traffic school. You are better off taking the $80 buy-off deal mentioned above.
- If you are planning to contend that the light was really yellow and the camera was wrong or broken, DO NOT WASTE YOUR TIME. You will be found GUILTY. I promise. Don’t forget the the cameras are considered infallible by the trial court judge. Even if it was broken!
Argue the law
While the cameras themselves might be considered infallible, the city has errored in the way they are set up and operated. You should expect to LOSE at trial even if you object to the evidence on these grounds. HOWEVER, these MAY help you get your ticket overturned in appeal. That’s right, if you want any chance of winning, you will have to APPEAL. This takes a lot of time and energy. If you’re fed up and willing to put in the time it takes to appeal, then go ahead and plead not-guilty. Otherwise, don’t waste your time and take the $80 buy-out deal.
What to do:
- Buy the book Fight Your Ticket in California from Nolo Press. Make sure you get thee one specifically for California.
- Go to the Hall of Justice (850 Bryant St.) with a copy of your citation many weeks before your trial. Parking hint: You can park on 6th street after 9am. so show up at 8:59 and you’ll have all the free parking you want. Otherwise you might have to pay the garages that charge $6 for the first 1/2 hour. Go to the 5th floor, turn right at the hallway, and go to the end. This is the Police Legal department. Tell the friendly officers (really, they have always been very friendly in this office) that you want to fill out an “Informal discovery request”. They will give you a short form. Fill it out, and the City’s “Photo prosecution packet” will be sent to you. This is exactly what they will present at trial, which is always a good thing to have beforehand.
Issues:
(For a good overview of many of these issues, read Highwayrobbery.net).
- The city has not property issued warning tickets as required by 21455.5. CVC (California vehicle code) 21455.5 allows cities to put up Automated Enforcement Systems if they follow the guidelines set forth in the statue. One of the statutes is that “Prior to issuing citations under this section, a local jurisdiction utilizing an automated traffic enforcement system shall commence a program to issue only warning notices for 30 days.” While most cities (I believe San Francisco is included) took this to mean warning tickets only needed to be issued 30 days before the first camera in a city, a recent court ruling in Southern California mandated that EACH camera is succeptible to the 30-day rule. At trial, I suggest asking the prosecution’s witness (the officer) if they issued only warning tickets for the first 30 days of YOUR camera’s operation.
- CVC 21455.5 also has very strict requirement with respect to intersection signage. 21455.5(a) basically says the city has to label an AES-enabled intersection from all sides. There is one exception: if they choose not to label the intersection from all sides, then it can “posts signs at all major entrances to the city, including, at a minimum, freeways, bridges, and state highway routes.” Note that San Francisco DOES NOT post the required signs on major city entrances like bridges, freeways, and state highway routes. Instead, they choose to label major freeway exits. This is not compliant with the letter or the spirit of the law. While some AES-enforced intersections ARE labeled with signage in all direction, many are completely un-labeled meaning the city is falling back on the fact that they think they’ve labeled the “freeways, bridges, and state highway routes”. If you bring this up at trial (as I did) expect to LOSE. By bringing it up at trial, though, you can use it in your appeal.
- Interesting pre-trial motions. Present them at your arraignment. They probably won’t work, but might be useful ammunition during your appeal.
- Try to subpoena the camera’s “source code”. The camera is more than a camera. It’s a computer. You have the right to question your accuser in court. Your accuser is this computer. You should have the right to know exactly how it is programmed. If this motion is granted, you will probably never see the “source code” (it’s a trade secret) and therefore I would expect the prosecution to drop the charges. It’s worth a shot. It will probably help your case if you know how (ie have the credentials) to interpet any “source code” that you might receive.
- The camera is disallowed under California’s “Speed trap” laws. This is a very interesting one, and will take further research. CVC 40801 forbids speed traps in California. “What does this have to do with Red Light Cameras?” you might ask. Well, let me tell you. CVC 40801 says “No peace officer or other person shall use a speed trap in arresting, or participating or assisting in the arrest of, any person for any alleged violation of this code nor shall any speed trap be used in securing evidence as to the speed of any vehicle for the purpose of an arrest or prosecution under this code.” CVS 40802 says “A particular section of a highway measured as to distance and with boundaries marked, designated, or otherwise determined in order that the speed of a vehicle may be calculated by securing the time it takes the vehicle to travel the known distance.” What does this mean to you? Well, the Red Light Computer decided to take a picture of you because you were headed for the intersection at a rate of speed high enough to assume that you were going to go past the ‘stop line’. It knew this because there are coils of wire in the pavement in each lane that are a set distance apart. It calculated your speed by securing the time it takes your vehicle to travel the known distance. Sound familiar? CVC 40801 now says they can’t use this evidence to prosecute you. But they did anyway, and now you have grounds to fight it. I didn’t try this angle, but I have a feeling you’ll LOSE if you do. But I want to hear about how it went, so write to me.
I’d love to hear from you. Write to me at aren /at/ thesandersens dotcom with your experiences.
Serge. I suggest one of the websites for help. Ticketbust.com is one that comes to mind. I recall reading that for about $159 or so, they will prepare a defense. Why not google some of these sites. Refunds are often offered of part of the fee if unsuccessful. Suggest a defense:
Only 21453 cvc can be photo enforced.
While you were cited for 21453 you did make a movement prevented by a red light or red arrow. You did make an illegal lane change but that is not photo enforceable.
Will you let me or this blog know what you do?
Dima…
Sherry Gendelman appears in court all over the Bay Area. Call and discuss options with her.
I don’t know specifically how much SF judges knock off for a quick plea of guilty. Some courts/judges knock off $100. I don’t know SF. Traffic School costs extra ($54 or $57) and is eligible to all but commercial drivers every 18 months. Even if plea of Not Guilty most judges still OK traffic school.
I am amazed at the number of people who never even ask the judge to rule on the clarity of the photograph. I tell people over and over – that they are the worst judge of whether it is clear beyond a reasonable doubt that it is a picture of them. Read up on this at website – highwayrobbery.net
Jenny. Your story is familiar. Relax and check mail daily. You and your mom’s. Ticket must be mailed within 11 days and received in 15 days (I think). If a ticket arrives, write the date on the envelope and save the envelope with postmark. Repost or write me when a ticket arrives. Do NOT let your Mom “nominate” you. If you feel guilty and do not require the State to prove it, just mail $500. (or give it to your Mom to mail).
Thanks for the reply Roger.
Do you mean “I” have to mail it within 11 days and “they” received in 15 days or the mail post should come within 11 days? And why is it that I cannot let my mom nominate me? Like I said, I know I clearly ran the light and I will pay the fines, so it should be fine if I put my name and whatnot on the paper that ask who this person is right?
Thanks for your help.
Jenny….There are many ways to perhaps “beat” the ticket or get a lesser fine. If you have made up your mind to pay fine, the court will be more than happy to accommodate you.
hey roger i got flashed today i bought my car from dealership paid off but it only came with the back plate,i never went to the D.M.V to get front plate.the only thing i got on the front plate is the dealerships number and title,but i bought this car a year ago its a Chevy classic will they still be able to get me for a ticket like this i Don’t have anything on my record at all.when i got the car from dealership it had no tinted windows now it does……….
I was turning right on a red light on my way to church. I know that i stop and i have my pasenger to prove it. Me and him know that we stop then turn right for that there is no sign “no right turn on red.” i know there is a cop behind me about 100-150ft thats why i know i have to stop carefully.. However the cop pulled me over and said i did not stop but he said he just saw me slowed down… He gave me a ticket and put about “6-8mph” on the ticket:( i got the mail and it is over 500 dollars… I don’t know why it came up that much for it should only be around 400:( on the ticket the cop put the wrong information. He put the previous owner of the car in the ticket as the owner of the car instead of me… Its crazy because i gave him my registration and my name is in there… I am thinking of making an appeal about this because i just dont wanna pay for the things that i believe i did not do… The time i got pulled over the cop ask me for my insurance, i gave it to him but i dont have the updated proof of insurance, but my car is insured .. He said i might get a ticket for that but he did not get a ticket for that instead gave me a warning to get an updated one.. Do i have a change of wining for that i have my passenger as my witness and that the cop put the wrong information in the ticket? Thank u..
Juan….wait 15 days and see if a ticket arrives. SF uses the front license plate to identify the car, I believe. I doubt if you will get a ticket.
hello, i got flashed at a intersection in san francisco down town. and i got a letter from enterprice rental car, to pay a fee i order to see the red light ticket. and i had oregon license at the time. then i moved to new mexico so i got a driver license from there.its been 4 months since then,i have not done anything yet… any sugestions please.
thanks roger, but will they probably call the dealership and try to get them to identify my in the car or what do you think will they do all that type of investigation to find out about the my car..the front license plate had the name and the number to the place i bought it from a year ago……………
Hi Arren,
I made a left turn on Mission at 15th and got a ticket for $480. In the first picture, when I am just behind the white line, the light is not red. The second picture shows me halfway through my turn, and you can clearly see the glow of the red light in that one. I was defnitely pushing it, but did not enter the intesection on red. I know that they say the cameras only snap when the light is red, but the “evidence” in this case clearly demonstrates otherwise. What do you think? I appreciate any advice.
Thank you,
Kelly
Hi, someone I know ran a red light at a camera intersection in my car and I received the ticket in my name. I responded to the questionnaire by saying, “I am not the driver in the photo.” and mailed it to the camera company in Arizona. I don’t want to give the name of the driver since i’m not required to do so. I received a notice from the court that I must appear no later than Jan. 6. I realize it is wishful thinking that my statement will cause them to drop the ticket against me, but how do I find out if, in fact, they have? Do I call the local police dept. to see if it’s been dropped? Should I still show up in court? What happens when I go to court?
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Juan….Doubtful that much research will go into this by police. Don’t worry unless you get something in the mail. Or if a couple months go by and still no word, call the Superior Court in SF and ask if there are any citations in your name.
Veronica, Assuming you received a real ticket and not a “snitch” ticket (see snitch ticket at highwayrobbery.net website)…what you do kind of depends on how much the photo ticket looks like you. If it is obviously not you, I would suggest a Trial by Written Declaration including a copy of your driver’s license photo. If the photo is of someone who looks like you, then do you have any evidence that it is not you….time card from work, or something that shows it could not have been you. email rlouisj@aol.com with citation no. and such if you want me to have a look.
I need some advice. I just got my red light ticket violation in the mail for $480 and i was not the driver. It was my friend who was driving. I was however in the passenger seat and the photo shows that i was in the passenger and my friend as the driver. Im the registered owner of the vehicle so i end up with the ticket. I want to contest the ticket but how should i proceed? I read that i dont have to identify the driver and i do not want to identify him. What actions should i take?
Britney – Pretty easy depending on the photo on the ticket. If it is CLEARLY not you, just go to arraignment – show the judge. Judge will not ask you who was driving. (If he does you do not have to answer). Just ask that the ticket be dismissed for lack of evidence. If the driver looks kinda like you and perhaps a judge may not dismiss it….Mail it back (to AZ most likely) – but if the driver can be tied to your address (like he lives with you at either your address on license or address of reg. owner of car) an enterprising cop may take the time to reissue the ticket in his/her name. These things can be done by TBWD, too. There are ways to get in front of a judge which do not require hours waiting in line – depending on courthouse. Are you sure you have a real ticket and not a SNITCH TICKET?? rlouisj@aol.com
Yes it is a real ticket. The photo shows that I was in the passenger seat and my friend as the driver. He doesn’t live at my address or have any association to me, only as a friend. Is my dismissal inevitable?
Britney It certainly sounds like a dismissal to me. Do it by Trial by Written Declaration. Then Trial de Novo if unsuccessful. Or go to arraignment in person before a judge. I sure would like a copy of your citation. I thought passengers’ were masked in photo tickets. What city cited you?
Happy new year. I need some advice. I just got my red light ticket violation in the mail for $480. My twin brother was the driver and I was in the passenger seat. We look pretty alike so I don’t know if I fight it I could win without disclosing his info.
Also the ticket requires that the real driver be identified by name and DOB on the mail-back form. How do I avoid putting down my brother’s name? We were visiting SF and really far away so I can’t attend court in person. He lives in another state so he has nothing identifiable via my registered address. What should I do?
Many thanks
So I’m just like everyone else on the site, and got a ticket for turning right on a red in the mail. Lucky me it even included a video. I’m very tempted to call Sherry Gendelman in the morning to ask for advice/representation, but am afraid of more fees. Aren and Roger seem to have some pretty amazing advice, so let me know if you have any idea if I can contest the ticket and the best way to proceed. I like the idea of trial by written declaration… Please let me know if you have any idea as to what I can do to fight this… I received a ticket for speeding on 280 and completed traffic school this summer, so I believe I’m not eligible for traffic school. I’d like to fight this to the end to avoid the $480 fee, and all other points! Thanks for helping me learn so much about a subject I wish I had no idea about!
I don’t know if it helps, but there was no signage that the intersection had cameras..
Josh….there are many legal/technical ways to defend yourself. You have not provided any detailed information. You could give the info to someone who can actually look at the violation, city, intersection and such. Either editor of highwayrobbery.net, Aren, or myself perhaps. Or call Gendelman. No one has any slam dunks without detailed info. rlouisj@aol.com
Leo. I suggest a Trial by Written Declaration. Include documents about your twin brother. Let’s say you include a copy of his driver’s license and say he was driving. Will that result in your brother getting a citation. I doubt it, but cannot say. How about including other documents which do not give his home address or driver’s license no. Copy of each’s birth certificate, class photos from yearbook showing both of you and such or other photo ID.
I recently got a red light ticket at an in intersection in Napa. How can I get an example of a trial by written declaration to fight the ticket??
I just got a red light camera notice from SF, driving NB on 9th St at Howard. I remember the incident clearly. I was just coming off the freeway and was confused about which lane to be in on 9th. I saw the red light too late, so I braked hard and stopped over the crosswalk. I didn’t want to stick out into the intersection and possibly get hit by cross traffic on Howard, so I backed up until I was again behind the crosswalk. (It was scarry, because I could see a wall of cars rushing up 9th toward me, but I had time to back up before they got to me. My wife was with me and remembers the whole thing.) I’m sure the light was red while I was backing up. But I did not proceed very far at all into the intersection, and I immediately backed out.
The photo site for my citation has only two photos, one showing me just before the crosswalk (ie no violation yet), and one showing me with my front tires just over the far side of the crosswalk (ie before I had backed up). There are no pics showing my car farther into the intersection, because I don’t believe I got much farther, before backing up. (I don’t know exactly how far I got into the intersection, but I had backed up enough to leave plenty of room before the cross traffic arrived.)
The web page with the photos says my “Yellow Time” was 3.5 and my “Red Time” was 0.8. It also says my speed was 18 and the speed limit was 15, which is weird. (Not sure what the speed limit is on 9th St, but I’m sure it’s more than 15 mph.) To the right of the “cat face” image in the black box on the first pic is “R008″, with the “8” in superscript. To the right of the cat face image on the second photo, it says “R022″, with the second “2” in superscript. What do those figures mean? Nowhere can I figure out how to decipher this infor, and particularly, to figure out how much time elapsed between the two pictures.
This is my first moving violation since 1999, and only the second one in 35 years of driving. Should I contest this in court to avoid the point on my record and maybe higher insurance? Can I contest the citation by mail? (Most people on this blog seem to show up in person, but I live almost 40 mi outside SF.) Is there any chance that there are additional photos somewhere, showing that I didn’t proceed further into the intersection beyond the crosswalk, and that I had backed out of it before the cross traffic arrived?
Thank you for this great site and any help you can offer.
Lucinda. see TBWD instructions: http://www.napacountyduilawyer.com/pdf/tr200.pdf Get copy of form from same webadress except tr205.
Give citation, lic plate no. and city code to Aren, me, or editor@highwayrobbery.net to have someone look for ideas on defenses. Go to highwayrobbery.net and go to “camera towns” go to “Napa” Read up on the matter.
Jimm…see comments above directed to Lucinda.
Hello,
Great website! Thank you for the valuable information and help. I was sent a no stop on red right turn ticket. I had to reply by the 9th of Jan in Oakland. Yesterday I called the clerk office and they extended my ticket another month. I have amajor problem because my license is expired and the ticket was sent under my name and the photo sort of looks like me. I was thinking about sending the letter stating it wasn’t me driving and I don’t know who it is / putting down my mums info because her fine could possibly be reduced since she is valid. Also does the clerk put comments in my record after speaking w me because I told him it wasn’t me? I am a student and have no cash flow at all? What us my best option? Please help! Thank you!
Thanks Roger, I couldn’t do trial by written declaration because my deadline for court is Jan. 6. I went to the courthouse and spoke to the clerk instead and asked to go to court. She asked if I had told the company in AZ who the driver is and I said, no because I’m not required to do so by law. She then said, they could hold you responsible for this ticket since you don’t know who the driver is. I said, I thought I was innocent until proven guilty, and that clearly is not me, so I don’t understand how I’d be responsible. Clearly annoyed, she said, well, you can explain that in court. I have to go to court tomorrow morning. I will post what happens. Thanks for the great site.
Nuu…I would not swear to something which is not true. Are you saying you were cited for driving without a license, too?? The clerk will not testify against you. Clerk will not enter what you say into “the record.” You can show the photo ticket to judge at arraignment and ask for a dismissal since it is not a clear enough photo to ID you. You can mount a hearsay defense or other “legal” type defense but you have provided no information on when and where the infraction occurred.
Veronica….If it is clearly not you show the judge your photo ticket and ask for a dismissal on the grounds that the person in the photo is clearly not you. This sort of thing gets a dismissal often. Now, this would be at your arraignment. Judge will not ask you who the driver was, not do you have to answer that question.
I have begun to form a group to organize protests against the Red Light Cameras. Initially, this will take shape in Fremont, then Newark and Hayward. If you want to attend the first strategy meeting, it is being held at Mountain Mike’s Pizza in Fremont on Monday, Jan. 16 at 7:00 pm. It is located in the Brookvale Shopping Center at Nicolet and Fremont Blvd (35760 Fremont Blvd) Jan 16th is a holiday for most people.
Even if you cannot attend this meeting, please add your voice of support to the “Meetup Group†website at:
http://www.meetup.com/Red-Light-Camera-Protest-Group-of-Southern-Alameda-County/
The initial idea to be discussed is to have monthly protests at certain “high value†camera intersection – signs and banners, etc. on Saturdays for example. rlouisj@aol.com
Hi there,
I’d appreciate guidance on a first time red light violation. According to my citation, it lists my actual speed as 21 while the speed limit was 15. It lists the yellow time as 3.4 and the red time as 0.3. I’m certain I crossed the line while it was still yellow. I don’t believe this should be a traffic violation.
Please help clarify the difference between the yellow time and red time. Is this worth showing up in court or would you recommend that I pay the fine?
Thank you in advance for the help!
Christine….It is much easier to offer information if you provide more details, especially the information with which someone else can view the photos and video on-line.
Anyway….yellow time is the length of the yellow light. The yellow light time must be set at a minimum which is related to the speed limit of the roadway. Red time on a photo ticket refers to the number of seconds the light was red when you reached the limit line. Whether to show up in court depends on the city which cited you, the details of the infraction, how much your time is worth to you. rlouisj@aol.com
p.s. I am curious what photo enforced approx. carries a speed limit of 15 mph. I am not aware of any. It does not make sense.
Any advice – turning right from Park Presidio into Lake on red I got ticketed. No video, but one picture shows me before crossing the white line, the second at turn at 16 MPH. I cannot see a proof of violation – my Infiniti G35 can easily move from stop to 16 MPH in 1.75 Seconds as the pictures show. I have my court date Tuesday and would appreciate any advice here. Thank you!
Hi Roger,
Thanks for the informative website. Please help me with my first automated red light camera ticket. The amount is $480 and i couldn’t afford to pay it. The first pic in the notice shows the traffic light already in red with my car behind the intersection line. I remember how it happened that night. I forced my way through the intersection when the traffic light turned yellow, thinking I would have enough time to pass the intersection before it turns red. Hence, my speed (40mph) is above the 35mph speed limit.
What do you suggest I should do? Would trial by written declaration work?
Thanks so much in advance!
Zalman….You waited until the last minute. Good luck. Whatever happens should be posted here. It seems to take hours or even a day for a posting to appear and no time for an interchange of postings. My email address is on this blog. Roger
Alvin, Without more detail it is impossible to give you all of the possible consequences or alternatives.
Ban The Cams Protest Demonstration: When: Saturday, Feb 4th at 12:00 Noon Where:Corner of Mowry Ave. & Fremont Blvd. in Fremont Pick up a sign behind Valero Gas Station. Why: Red Light Cameras are all about REVENUE and NOT about SAFETY
Hi Roger,
Thanks for keeping eyes against those evil red light camera systems for us first. I need your help. I just got my first automated red light camera ticket and I confirmed it is not a snitch ticket. I know I am guilty and regret about it, but I really don’t want to pay $500+.
Place: E.4th AVE & S. Humboldt St, San Mateo. (not in SF, so still please help me)
Speed: Speed limit is 30mph, but my car is 34 mph.
The video showed my car drove thru the intersection during the red light. (I really feel bad), but the pic of my face is pretty blur. I can hardly see my eyes.
My friends in LA said their city court drop the red light camera system and hence they said they will ignore the ticket. That sounds very dangerous for me.
What do you recommend? Can I do anything for the blurry pic of my face? Looking forward for your recommendation. Thanks.
John – Going to arraignment and asking the commissioner to dismiss based on an unclear photo is one way to go. Unfortunately, many commissioners do not use the standard of proof: “beyond a reasonable doubt” that it is you in the photo. Just the opposite: “I cannot tell beyond a reasonable doubt that it is NOT you.” A significant cost to fight a ticket is how to get to arraignment without waiting in line (35 degrees). Call the court and see how to get to arraignment without devoting 4 hours of your day. Bringing photos of other licensed drivers in your household or work with could help, but this might have to wait until trial. I think traffic attys can achieve some very good results and is worth exploring. Sherry Gendelman is one of the most well known in the county.
Hey everyone,
I’ve got a 3 quick questions. First of all my experience happened making a right turnon a very foggy night close to 2am here in orange county. The night was really cloudy you could barely see about 5 ft infront of your vehicle now I was hittin between 35 to 40mph now I was able to see the red light but suddenly last second I saw the crosswalk lines and I hit the brake for a quick second till that flash came on I thought someone flashed theyre lights at me so I let go of the brakes and proceeded but realized it was a camera flash. So my 3 questions are…
1. Is it possible for those cameras to catch you when its really foggy?
2. This was on Dec 31st around 1:45am Its been 21 days and no ticket am I safe?
3. Is there a website I can look up of I got a ticket by entering my plates?
Ricky…You appear to be in good shape. Ticket should have been mailed to the registered owner by now. If it arrives after this, save the envelope with postmark and repost. Google the Superior Court of Orange County to find where you can enter your name and see if you have a citation….or just call the court.
@ Roger Thanks man really appreciate the feedback
Hi there, do you know if the trial + traffic school option is the same format for Santa Cruz County’s court system? The options are not clear on the citation. They say I can either: 1. pay the bill and I MIGHT be eligible for traffic school, it is TBD by the court, or 2. request a trial date when an officer will be present. Does this mean that if I take #2, they will give me the option to negotiate for the discounted fine and traffic school or will I automatically be giving up my right to traffic school? (I’m mostly interested in not getting a point on my driving record but also want to get a lower fine). Thanks, your site is really helpful!
Christine….If there has been 18 months since you last attended traffic school, then you are eligible. You have a right to attend traffic school if you plea guilty. If you plea Not Guilty but you are found guilty, the judge does not have to grant you traffic school. I have seen about 12 judges and I have never heard of anyone denied permission to attend traffic school. I did hear the commissioner in Redwood City does not grant traffic school for Not Guilty pleas.
TBD does not affect your eligibility.
I just received a ticket at Westborough and Hickey near Costco for a rolling stop on a red light. But the photo was not clear enough to tell it was me.
What do you suggest I should do?
Here’s my information:
Notice # 0421200003992
Pin # 2890
Thank you
@Roger: thank you so much for the clarification about the citation. This is my first one so I have not taken traffic school before…I definitely want that option so I can keep the point off my record.
Regarding the options listed at the top–Trial + Traffic School, it’s my understanding that you only get to trial if you plead “not guilty” is this correct? So, it sounds like if my main priority is avoiding the point, then I need to suck it up and pay the full fine instead of trying to gamble with the system and get a reduced fine at a trial in case they do find me guilty and do not offer traffic school?
Thanks for your help!
Hey Roger,
I received a red light ticket on Franklin and Geary back in Dec. It was late and dark and the photo is not clear AT ALL! I find it hard to believe anyone can prove beyond a reasonable doubt it was me. Plus I was making a left hand turn, traveling below the speed limit, and was flashed a 1/100 of a second. I truly believe the light was yellow. I filed for a written declaration, and still have not received my form in the mail. At the courthouse I gave the clerk a written informal discovery and insisted they give me proof of receipt. I also filed an informal discovery with the District Attorney via certified mail as directed by the Clerk at the SF Superior Courthouse. I used the form/outline on http://www.highwayrobbery.com My informal request stated that the receiving party must respond to my discovery within 14 days. It has now been 14 days and I have not heard from the Court, the District Attorney, or City Attorney.
My questions are
1)Can my case be dismissed if no one responds to my discovery?
2) My photo is very blurry and is my main defense, but if they disregard that point can I also fight the lack of signage, inability to stop safely, malfunction of the camera (since they refused to provide the subpoenaed information) etc. With a written declaration can I argue multiple points, even if I’m fighting the driver might not be me? Or do I just fight the blurry photo and if found guilty, appeal using the other arguments?
Thank you so much for any help!
-Brittany in SF
Christine. A plea of guilty with a request for traffic school seems like a good option if the photo is clear and it does not require a big investment of time. You could also ask for Community Service. You might have to make a statement about financial hardship and such to be granted that option. It is a bit ususual to plea Guilty by TBWD but I can tell you my personal experience. I turned my “plea by written declaration” in letter format to the judge. I had previously transferred my case to a different court to where the judge was known to be lenient. I wrote him a letter and said I was guilty and that I would like traffic school and community service. This worked. I guess the safe bet would be to get in front of the judge, however.