UPDATE 10/19/2005: 9 months after the ticket, I got the appeal decision in the mail. I won!
Like many cities in California, San Francisco has been using Automated Enforcement Systems (a.k.a. “Red Light Cameras”) at many of its intersections for several years now. Although the stated purpose is (of course) for safety, the real reason is revenue. If you are the unlucky recipient of one of the citations in the mail (as yours truly recently was) then this website is for you. It explains your options and relates my experience with the San Francisco court system.
Your choices:
- The picture isn’t of you. The registered owner is who gets sent the ticket. If the picture is not of you, sign the attached affidavit saying that the picture isn’t of you. Don’t lie — you’re saying under the penalty of purjury that it’s not you in the ticket. DO NOT, however, TELL THEM WHO IS IN THE PICTURE. It’s their job to figure that out, not yours. Don’t rat out your friends and family.
- Pay it. If $371 is worth less to you than a lost morning in court, then just pay the ticket and move on. You may or may not want to do traffic school to keep the points from appearing on your license. While I’ve never done it myself, I hear the on-line version of traffic school is fairly painless.
- Trial + Traffic school. This is probably the best option for most people. Go to the clerk. Post bail (the amount of your ticket) and plead not-guilty.  Get a time for trial. SHOW UP ON TIME. When the court session starts, the clerk will allow you to have your fine reduced to only $50 if you take traffic school (with a $30 fee). For a total of $80, you’re done and the points are not added to your license. NOTE: If you’ve already done traffic school in the past 18 months, you’re not eligible to do it again. Sorry.
- Plead not-guilty. Lots of options here. You can skip the arraignment and demand your right to a speedy trial (within 45 days) by going to the clerk and posting the $371 bond. Sometimes, due to the short notice, the officer isn’t properly subpoenaed and won’t know that he/she needs to testify against you (this happened in my case). If the officer doesn’t appear to testify, your case is dismissed. Or, the officer could already be in court to testify against other people and will realize that she needs to testify against you too, and will testify anyway (yep, this happened to me).Or, you can go to your arraignment and plead not-guilty there. This gives you the chance to make pre-trial motions. This makes the process very drawn-out — expect your trial date to be many months in the future.
Pleading not-guilty
NOTE WELL: This takes a lot of time and will really try your patience. DO NOT EXPECT TO WIN. In fact, you should expect to lose. Sorry, but the trial court for traffic and other infractions in San Francisco assumes GUILT. Moreover, the red light camera systems are considered infallible and therefore beyond reproach. AGAIN, YOU WILL LOSE.
Don’t waste your time
- People often say that with traffic cases you should plead not-guilty and take your chances that the officer won’t show up. (If the officer doesn’t show up, your case is immediately dismissed.) I would agree with this strategy for all non-red light camera tickets. However, from what I can tell, the officers assisting with the red light camera prosecutions do not have normal police “beats”, and instead have a desk job, probably in the same building. This means they have a high liklihood of showing up.
- If you are planning to contend that you don’t run red lights, you are a safe driver, and you’ve never done it before, do not waste your time. (Most murderers haven’t murdered anyone before, either.) You will be found GUILTY. Your fine will be lowered to $300, but they won’t grant you traffic school. You are better off taking the $80 buy-off deal mentioned above.
- If you are planning to contend that the light was really yellow and the camera was wrong or broken, DO NOT WASTE YOUR TIME. You will be found GUILTY. I promise. Don’t forget the the cameras are considered infallible by the trial court judge. Even if it was broken!
Argue the law
While the cameras themselves might be considered infallible, the city has errored in the way they are set up and operated. You should expect to LOSE at trial even if you object to the evidence on these grounds. HOWEVER, these MAY help you get your ticket overturned in appeal. That’s right, if you want any chance of winning, you will have to APPEAL. This takes a lot of time and energy. If you’re fed up and willing to put in the time it takes to appeal, then go ahead and plead not-guilty. Otherwise, don’t waste your time and take the $80 buy-out deal.
What to do:
- Buy the book Fight Your Ticket in California from Nolo Press. Make sure you get thee one specifically for California.
- Go to the Hall of Justice (850 Bryant St.) with a copy of your citation many weeks before your trial. Parking hint: You can park on 6th street after 9am. so show up at 8:59 and you’ll have all the free parking you want. Otherwise you might have to pay the garages that charge $6 for the first 1/2 hour. Go to the 5th floor, turn right at the hallway, and go to the end. This is the Police Legal department. Tell the friendly officers (really, they have always been very friendly in this office) that you want to fill out an “Informal discovery request”. They will give you a short form. Fill it out, and the City’s “Photo prosecution packet” will be sent to you. This is exactly what they will present at trial, which is always a good thing to have beforehand.
Issues:
(For a good overview of many of these issues, read Highwayrobbery.net).
- The city has not property issued warning tickets as required by 21455.5. CVC (California vehicle code) 21455.5 allows cities to put up Automated Enforcement Systems if they follow the guidelines set forth in the statue. One of the statutes is that “Prior to issuing citations under this section, a local jurisdiction utilizing an automated traffic enforcement system shall commence a program to issue only warning notices for 30 days.” While most cities (I believe San Francisco is included) took this to mean warning tickets only needed to be issued 30 days before the first camera in a city, a recent court ruling in Southern California mandated that EACH camera is succeptible to the 30-day rule. At trial, I suggest asking the prosecution’s witness (the officer) if they issued only warning tickets for the first 30 days of YOUR camera’s operation.
- CVC 21455.5 also has very strict requirement with respect to intersection signage. 21455.5(a) basically says the city has to label an AES-enabled intersection from all sides. There is one exception: if they choose not to label the intersection from all sides, then it can “posts signs at all major entrances to the city, including, at a minimum, freeways, bridges, and state highway routes.” Note that San Francisco DOES NOT post the required signs on major city entrances like bridges, freeways, and state highway routes. Instead, they choose to label major freeway exits. This is not compliant with the letter or the spirit of the law. While some AES-enforced intersections ARE labeled with signage in all direction, many are completely un-labeled meaning the city is falling back on the fact that they think they’ve labeled the “freeways, bridges, and state highway routes”. If you bring this up at trial (as I did) expect to LOSE. By bringing it up at trial, though, you can use it in your appeal.
- Interesting pre-trial motions. Present them at your arraignment. They probably won’t work, but might be useful ammunition during your appeal.
- Try to subpoena the camera’s “source code”. The camera is more than a camera. It’s a computer. You have the right to question your accuser in court. Your accuser is this computer. You should have the right to know exactly how it is programmed. If this motion is granted, you will probably never see the “source code” (it’s a trade secret) and therefore I would expect the prosecution to drop the charges. It’s worth a shot. It will probably help your case if you know how (ie have the credentials) to interpet any “source code” that you might receive.
- The camera is disallowed under California’s “Speed trap” laws. This is a very interesting one, and will take further research. CVC 40801 forbids speed traps in California. “What does this have to do with Red Light Cameras?” you might ask. Well, let me tell you. CVC 40801 says “No peace officer or other person shall use a speed trap in arresting, or participating or assisting in the arrest of, any person for any alleged violation of this code nor shall any speed trap be used in securing evidence as to the speed of any vehicle for the purpose of an arrest or prosecution under this code.” CVS 40802 says “A particular section of a highway measured as to distance and with boundaries marked, designated, or otherwise determined in order that the speed of a vehicle may be calculated by securing the time it takes the vehicle to travel the known distance.” What does this mean to you? Well, the Red Light Computer decided to take a picture of you because you were headed for the intersection at a rate of speed high enough to assume that you were going to go past the ‘stop line’. It knew this because there are coils of wire in the pavement in each lane that are a set distance apart. It calculated your speed by securing the time it takes your vehicle to travel the known distance. Sound familiar? CVC 40801 now says they can’t use this evidence to prosecute you. But they did anyway, and now you have grounds to fight it. I didn’t try this angle, but I have a feeling you’ll LOSE if you do. But I want to hear about how it went, so write to me.
I’d love to hear from you. Write to me at aren /at/ thesandersens dotcom with your experiences.
Brittany…I do not know much about discovery requests. highwayrobbery.net deals with this but I have not read up on the matter. Have you actually submitted your Written Declaration or just requested the blank form. If you have filed your Written Declaration you can get a Trial de Novo where you get to start over in court. Bring up any matters you like whether or not they were included in Written Declaration.
Dear Roger / Aren,
First of all, this site is extremely helpful and appreciate all the posts from all users.
Today, I received a citation of $480 for Failure to Stop at a Red Light which I would like to avoid paying if possible. Pls see the details below and I’d appreciate any help you can offer:
– Crossing: Van Ness and 14th (San Francisco)
– Actual Speed: 21 Speed Limit: 15
Yellow Time: 3.4 Red Time: 1.3 Weather: DARK
– Options: 1) Pay up, 2) traffic school, 3) Court Trial, 4) Trial by written declaration (I do not see an option for court trial + Traffic school)
What happened: I was driving along van ness on a v rainy day, and I and braked a little late and just creeped over the white line barely after it was red. I did not move into the crossing and no more than half my front tire was ahead of the white line. I then gradually backed up as the road was clear – I did not continue to move forward into the crossing. There is no signage anywhere around that crossing stating that it is photo enforced.
I was able to check the photos on the site and while dark, they depict my car clearly. The notes also state my speed was 21mph against the limit of 15mph (which seems v low for that street).
I have a full clean driving license.
thank you in advance for your help. I would really like to know what my practical options are to avoid paying or pay a reduced fine. I am happy to attend traffic school, but will be out of the country for all of February.
R
As one registered owner of the vehicle that received a red light violation I was sent the citation. I certified that I was not the driver, but it was beyond the date to return by mail, so the other registered own, who was driving took the citation to court, and was told to go to another office to have it re-issued.
He has received the re-issued citation by mail, but I have also received a failure to appear citation. Why wouldn’t one action cancel the other?
Russell – I see many options. Too lengthy to type up. Let’s assume you have time to eventually have to appear in court. Or if not, I believe your chances are fewer. You can go to arraignment – show photos to judge and ask for a quick dismissal – and then plead Not Guilty if unsuccessful – or TBWD and then ask for Trial de Novo if that fails.
email me and we can set up a time to talk. rlouisj@aol.com
Jon S. Contesting a failure to appear is a separate matter from the ticket. Ask the window clerk for the form – something like Request to Vacate Civil Assessment. Did you get a notice of the $300 civil assessment?
Your reasons for failure to appear were 1. you never signed a promise to appear and 2. it took time to have the ticket issued in the driver’s name – all of which was taken care of. There should no longer be a ticket in your name…ask the window clerk to verify that.
Jon S. This might the form used to vacate the civil assessment.
http://www.alameda.courts.ca.gov/Resources/Documents/CivilAssessmentPetitionandOrder.pdf
Hi, i received a video ticket in the mail and it is not me. I live in Arizona and don’t want to give the id of the driver. Will I have to drive to California to fight it?
Cal…Try Trial by Written Declaration. Forms are on line. Include a copy of your driver’s license photo. Hopefully it will clearly show it is not you. If it could be you, then that could be a problem. You could include a photo of the actual driver. Or photos of others who live with you who resemble the photo on ticket….If you lose, you can file for Trial de Novo. see highwayrobbery.net for more information.
So I received a picture ticket for failure to stop at a Red Arrow Signal on Fell and Masonic. I never entered the intersection, but stopped in the crosswalk. It was 1:15 AM, and there wasn’t a sole around. The pictures never show me beyond the crosswalk, but merely stopped in it. If I take the time to go to court – are they going to say I technically violated the “Failure to Stop at Red Arrow Signal” merely for stopping in the crosswalk? Again, never went past the crosswalk into the intersection.
Thanks – what a great and informative webpage!
Gordon W….I have some ideas but a little too busy right now for a thoughtful response. In the meantime I would like to see you photos and video. If you can give me your citation no. and pin no. either here or to my email I will get back to you soon. rlouisj@aol.com
Protest Rally at Noon Saturday, Feb. 4th
The Red Light Camera Protest Group of Southern Alameda County will be holding a street corner protest at Mowry and Fremont Blvd. this Saturday at Noon. The group will focus the public’s attention to the fact that these camera programs are much more about revenue than safety and that overly aggressive enforcement is not reducing red light running.
Hi Roger,
I received a red light ticket last sunday at the intersection of Clayton and Twin peaks in SF. It was rainy dark night, I was going straight on Clayton toward portola. I saw the green arrow light signal for right turn and thought it was my green light for going straight. I passed this red light right in front of the police!
What are options for lessening the fee? Can I request a trial plea guilty and ask for traffic school or community service to pay off the ticket? is it still $480 for a red light ticket? Thanks so much for your time and advice!
chamying SF – I assume your ticket was a photo enforced one. and Not from the police who were right there…correct? I sense you do not have time to investigate any possible defenses based on possible incorrect placement of signal lights and such. Nor do you have time to review the many other posts dealing with your questions. I don’t know of any “magic wand” solutions. There are very few postings which give information about the SF traffic court judges actual practices on lowering the mandatory minimum fine by perhaps $100 for a quick plea of guilty like some judges in other jurisdictions do. I generally see community service is offered to most especially if they are students or underemployed. Traffic School is not a problem if you plead guilty and have not attended in the last 18 months. All this can be done by Written Declaration. Lawyer Sherry Gendelman knows much more and may be worth a call. She seems to be successful on many camera tickets.
Hi Roger,
My dad just received a $480 ticket for failure to stop at red signal (VC21453A) when making a right turn. A video was available to view also. I’ve heard from people that you can go to court and plead guilty and the judge usually lowers the fine by a little bit. However, on the ticket, it doesnt give us the option of going to court to plead guilty. The court trial option is only for people who wish to contest the violate and plead Not Guilty. Can you please advise?
Thanks!
eliang3118 Once again. Some judges grant a slight accommodation to those who appear before the bench and plead guilty. All depends. Your ticket is from SF? There are other ways to either “beat” the ticket or lessen the pain. Most depend on one’s willingness to fight. Is community service an option?
Hi, just wanted to double check that the red light traffic cameras in San Francisco only take photos from the front. I set off the one on Mission and Seventh street. I was riding a motorcycle with only rear plates. I wasn’t even speeding. I just miscalculated my ability to make the light. Please tell me I’m gonna be okay.
Jonathan….as far as I know. . front only.. Wait 2 weeks and see if mailman drops off a ticket.
If you live in the East Bay – plan on attending the street protest TODAY (Saturday) starting in an hour or so. Corner of Mowry and Fremont Blvd. in Fremont. Signs provided. Festivities start at NOON and extend for who knows how long?
HI,
I just wanted everyone to know that the traffic cameras on Fell take pics/vid from from AND back.
I received one on the day that the haight/western addition had a major power outage and some of the signal lights were not working. I saw the flash go off before I even got to the crosswalk, but I received a ticket anyway. I imagine my best scenario is going to traffic school and getting it reduced, but it sucks because I didn’t cross the lines on red; even the video shows that. However, my ticket says two people reviewed it and found me guily
Really Hurting: You want to show me? I have never seen a camera ticket issued where the 2nd photo shows your car still behind the first white line. The 1st photo will show the vehicle behind the first white line. I just have not seen where both photos show the car behind the first white line. rlouisj@aol.com cite # and pin #
Roger,
Thank you for your earlier response. Here is my update. I asked for a trial by written declaration, and on that same day I placed a formal discovery request with the court and the City District Attorney.
Last week I received my blank form for written declarations which is due Feb. 24th. In regards to my discovery request it said that the court/city attorney had 15 days to respond. It has been 28 days and I did end up receiving the discovery reponse in the mail today, but way past the 15 day requirement. Is this cause for dismissal?
Now I’m left wondering how to proceed. Even the original photos they’ve sent me are VERY blurry. This still seems like my best option to have the case dismissed. I am also wondering if I can motion for the camera images to be dismissed as well since the city attorney took over 20 days to respond to my request and provide the subpoenaed information.
My discovery request included a subpoena for traffic light camera maintenance to prove the camera was functioning properly on the day of the violation. While they did provide a vague report, there is no information regarding upkeep or maintenance on the day of my incident and I am wondering if I can have the photo evidence dismissed, since there is no photo of the actual red light, there is no evidence the light was functioning properly in Dec, and especially on the day my ticket was issued, and finally there is not a clear image of the driver, making it hard to prove the driver was me beyond a reasonable doubt.
Do you have any advice in proceeding with my written declaration. Should I focus on the blurry image, or include other issues, such as failure to provide subpoenaed information in a timely manner, failure to post signs at every major entrance to the city, etc.
Is it better to pick one issue, or include as many issues as possible since I am defending myself in a letter as opposed to in front of a judge. I do plan on requesting a trial novo if after my written declaration they find me guilty, but I want my written declaration to present as strong of an argument(s) as possible.
Thank you so much!
Brittany – you ask many questions. Before giving some 2-bit advice can you email me w/ citation and pin no.s. Was the subpoenaed info transmitted electronically? or hard copy? Possible to send that too?
Roger rlouisj@aol.com
Much of what happens by TBWD or at trial depends a lot on your judge. I have seen some who seem to take their job seriously and some who treat rules of evidence and such pretty loosely. I also have not seen any strong evidence that Trial by Declarations are taken seriously. How am I to really know, though.
I have a GF who just got a rolling red photo ticket for $480. She is guilty and has no prior infractions. She has been laid off from 2 jobs in the past year and has a disabled daughter and can not afford this ticket. What is the best approach to get her fine reduced?
Similar situation to Gordon W – turning left on Octavia from Fell st. Noticed the red turn arrow late and slammed on my brakes, stopping before the intersection but with my front tires past the first crosswalk line.
Ticket with photos and video arrives for a $500+ red light violation. Any advice on my best method for fighting this? I definitely didn’t run a red, but imagine that I’m stil liable for crossing into the crosswalk.
Brittany – I have much information for you. Cannot be posted. email rlouisj@aol.com
Steve Nelson – Without knowing anything else , have girlfriend go to arraignment. Plea guilty and ask for community service. (48 hrs or so). If she is not sure how community service works or where she can find qualified work, repost.
To whom it may concern,
I asked a few questions regarding my red light ticket and my commercial license a few months ago on this site and received good information. Now that I am done with my ticket, I wanted to update anyone who may be in my boat. I went to the SF court initially, waited in the terribly long line to get to the window, and told the clerk I wanted to be arraigned by a judge (to give myself another chance at getting my infraction knocked down to a muni code violation) I had to sign an agreement to be released on my own recognizance in order to avoid paying at the time. I was scheduled for an arraignment almost 5 months later. I went to the arraignment last Friday the 10th. (make sure you are parking on a street that does not have a two hour limit OR a tow-away after 3 PM sign or your day is going to get a lot worse!! I was ushered in the room and after all the announcements by the officer in the room, everyone was given the chance to have their ticket fine reduced if they agreed to sign up for traffic school. Great if you don’t have a commercial license. I went to the officer and asked him if I could go with my class B license. I already knew that you normally cannot. He actually went into the judges quarters and asked for me. The answer was no. After the traffic school option was done, the judge came in and offered to reduce fines if you pleaded guilty. I went before the judge, and asked him if I could plead guilty to a lessor muni code violation that did not carry the point on my license as I could not attend traffic school and did not want to jeopardize my job. He thought about it and told me my only chance to have that occur is if I pleaded not guilty, set up a trial and asked the officer at the trial. I then asked the judge if my reduction in fines would be as much at trial as they would be here. He said they would be far greater now. Although I really wanted to get the point off my record, I knew my insurance rates would not be going up terribly (I called in advance) and that it appeared I may not get my infraction reduced at trial and may then lose my reduction in fees so I pleaded guilty, and my fees were cut in half. Instead of paying 480, I paid 240.00 and called it a day. I hope this helps anyone who was in my boat. If you know your insurance is going to go up significantly (tickets last 3 years) or you may truly put your job in jeopardy, it may be worth it to push to a trial. I hope this helps.
Geoff – Thank you for posting feedback for the many who need this sort of information. Question: Who was the judge/commissioner? Do you know if others reduce fines like yours did?
Hi,
I am about to fill out the Trial By Written Declaration for the red light camera on 19th and Sloat ST in SF. I have three questions that will help me fight this citation to the fullest:
1) I am contesting the citation by asking the clerk for 100% proof that I was the driver by submitting a copy of my ID/DL, SHOULD I GET THE BEST QUALITY COPY POSSIBLE or IS A REGULAR COPY BETTER?
2) HOW DO I REQUEST TRAFFIC SCHOOL IF THE CLERK DECIDES THAT I AM GUILTY?
3) ANYWAY TO LOWER THE FINE THAT I SUBMITTED ALREADY WHEN THE REQUEST FOR THE TBWD WAS REQUESTED?
Sincerely thank you in advance for taking your time with my problem/citation!!!!
Dimitri – 100% proof is not required to find you guilty. Only reasonable doubt. And in traffic court, the reality is that the standard of proof is even less. If the photo is not you, is it CLEARLY not you? Then – a verdict in your favor is much more likely. If it is not you, is there any document to show it could not have been you? Your time card from work or some such thing.
Ask for Traffic School if verdict is not in your favor.
I doubt if fine will be lowered without any further statements. Once again, VERY FEW take time to post actual experiences back onto this blog. A bit selfish if you ask me.
I TOTALLY AGREE : “VERY FEW take time to post… ”
I am expecting a “found guilty verdict” coming to me in the mail, that is when I will ask for traffic school by mail, RIGHT?
I will be sending in the TBWD papers to court tomorrow, will post the status as it goes.
Thank you for the good piece of info on your reply.
I am sorry, before i send the TBWD papers to court, should I ask for traffic school if the verdict is not in my favor when i am providing declarations in the form TR-205?
Thank you in advance.
Dimitri: This site has many templates for TBWD – check it out.
http://www.socalevo.net/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=..&topic=27988.0
Hi Roger, I recently moved to San Francisco and got a ticket for running a no-left-turn arrow at the intersection of FELL & MASONIC. I can’t deny committing the violation. All I can say for myself is that I was confused by the bright camera flash that went off as I approached the intersection (it flashed well before I got to the intersection) and I failed to realize that there is a no-left-turn arrow mixed in with all the other green lights for westbound traffic.
I’m not interested in fighting the matter, however, I am interested in minimizing the $480 fine. I’ve read a lot of the comments on this post, but I’m still not 100% clear as to the best way to pursue the REDUCED FINE + TRAFFIC SCHOOL outcome. Is it possible to request a REDUCED FINE + TRAFFIC SCHOOL through the mail or is it necessary to go to the Clerk at the Superior Court Clerk?
My real question is:
WHAT IS THE BEST WAY TO GET A REDUCED FINE + TRAFFIC SCHOOL?
Based on all the comments I’ve read on this page my understanding is that I should:
1) Go to the Superior Court Clerk’s window (at the Bryant Street location).
2) Ask for a REDUCED FINE + TRAFFIC SCHOOL
Is that accurate? Also, is it possible to request community service from the Clerk?
This site is really helpful. Thanks very much for maintaining it!
Kris – There are probably hundreds of postings on this blog from folks wanting help with tickets. I only recall one or two with actual outcomes. So how would anyone reasonably be able to predict an outcome? A window clerk will not reduce a fine. The cop and judge have some discretion in the matter. It will take a significant investment of time to get past the window clerk to either the judge or the cop. Traffic school is available if you are eligible (18 month rule) and you plead Guilty. At judge’s discretion, permission to attend traffic school can be granted for Not Guilty pleas. The traffic engineers can get rid of the trap which guarantees enough red light running to pay for the cameras. The best result can be achieved if you call your state legislator.
I found this on Yelp. It gives actual result of going to court. More people should post their outcomes….
i don’t usually write reviews, the reason why i am writing this is to help others that might be in the same situation i was.
So around august i was driving on 19th avenue in San Francisco and ran a red light (by .2 seconds). Since everything happened so quick i didn’t think it was directed to me as another car behind me also ran trough it. But sure enough that ticket came in the mail
I have never gotten a ticket before, so to me this was all new. So when i opened this letter and i saw a $480.00 fine, plus traffic school, plus a $55 administrative fee to take traffic school, i was extremely pissed, that’s $535 plus traffic School!! Being a full-time college student who has to pay for his own things this was money that i could not afford to spend.
so i came here to yelp and read a few of the reviews and i must say they were very helpful. Specially the one by Kelly C.
Since i didn’t have $535+ dollars laying around i did as anyone would; i went to court.
After reading about everyone’s misfourtune i decided to go early, really early. I was there 30 minutes before it opened, and thinking back, it was a great decision. I was probably the 10th in line. And it took 30 minutes for me to be helped. in 1 hour i was out of there. All i did was walked up to the clerk i did what Kelly said and chose not guilty and they gave me a court date. which was 5 months later! plenty of time to figure out how to pay for this ticket.
So the court date comes around, being the punctual freak i am i arrived an hour early. (Which is something i don’t recommend) Arrive 20-30 mins early because security can get busy..You See i thought i was going to be called alone, in front of the judge or maybe in a room with a few people but nooooo. When they schedule your appointment, they also schedule a bunch of other people at that exact time too, So don’t expect to have your issues taken care of exactly at your appointment time. They go in alphabetical order so it can take up to 2 hours depending on everyone’s issues. PLAN AHEAD.
My appointment as well as everyone’s else was scheduled to 10:30 There was probably 60 of us sitting outside, they then divided us in two rooms about 30 in each, as we all walked in and sat down .The judge wasn’t there yet, and the officer at the front of the room explained what behavior was expected of us.pretty much the basic no phones, no reading, no eating or drinking, or they will throw you out.
After the officer told us everything a guy in fron of the room explained the options we had: First was to plead guilty and request a deduction, but You would NOT be able to take traffic school, if you are found guilty. And therefore losing a point in your license.
Second: to Plead not guilty and have a formal hearing scheduled where the officer who gave you the ticket would be present and you can question him and tell the judge your side of the story. And he/she will then make her decision. Or if you had a red light ticket you would pretty much try to prove your innocence, for example: there wasn’t enough time between yellow or red or a car in front on you prevented you from going any faster, etc.
Third: To take traffic school, For those of who got a red light, emergency vehicle, or school bus ticket, we had the option to have our fee reduced to $294 ,plus the $55 admin fee, plus traffic school.those with other violations had the same option and would have their fines reduced to $114. But unlike Kelly’s review they never told us we would be found guilty.
I went for the deal, like Kelly said, they had my picture running the damn light, i had no excuses. And i wasn’t going to leave it to chance, So about 10 of us formed a line and we went up to him, i gave him my last name, but he didn’t write Guilty as Kelly stated , all he wrote was how much total it would cost and how long i had to pay it. Pretty much it came out to be $294+$55 so $349 plus traffic school.
I walked in the room 10:30 , left at 10:50, 20 minutes and i saved $200 bucks, And avoided the point on my license. Plus they gave me another 3 months to pay for it.
So pretty much i ended up with 8 months to pay the fine. Which was the best part because i was able to save money for it.
If you have the money than paying the fine and being done with it might be easier for you, but for many like me this was a good way to save money. I definitely recommend it.
Getting a ticket sucks, we all know, you are not alone, going to court sucks even more but It was totally worth the hassle.
The only reason i am giving this place 4 stars is so others can read this review and be informed about their options.
There are a few other real life experiences posted on Yelp concerning San Francisco Traffic Court. See this website:
http://www.yelp.com/biz/traffic-court-san-francisco#query:red%20light%20ticket
Hi,
my sister got a red light camera ticket this week, because she passed a bus way. her photo is completely blurry, and nobody can recognize who is it, but she knows it’s her photo- she is really under financial pressure and think about every way that can fight her ticket-
can she say it’s not her photo at the court and they dismiss her ? or they have other clear documents that can prove her guiltiness?
The other question is : she got this ticket in LA county ,can she ignore the ticket as some websites and blogs say or may be she’ll get in trouble later?
Thank you for your attention
Andrea: What is a “bus way?” Judge can dismiss because it is a blurry photo; it is not necessary to testify that it was not you. I am not sure about what happens when you ignore a Los Angeles ticket. Are you sure it is a ticket filed with the court or could it be a snitch ticket? rlouisj@aol.com
Andrea: Read this thread found on the internet –
http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=122961
Hello all,
I recently drove a friend’s car to the city and my friend was in the passenger seat. I was driving on Fell and was planning to make a left on Masonic.The left turn arrow was red and I didn’t noticed at that time. So I drove my front tires a few feet over the limit line, ,applied the brake, and notice two sequential flashes from the camera. I never made it into the intersection and I didn’t run the red. That was when I backed up and realized that the front tire only went over a few feet. So my question is, in this scenario, do you think I’ll get a ticket? Thanks
If the registered owner of the car was not the red-light offender in the photo and the owner identifies the offending driver, the SF Red Light Photo website says the identified driver may or may not be cited. Anyone know how often they actually go the next step and cite the identified driver?
Karen – I don’t know how to get the answer, but I would guess the number would be close to 100%. Call the red light camera folks at SFPD and see what they say. I do have some real stats from one East Bay City. They send real tickets to those “snitch tickets” received back from owners and list the driver’s info. Of course, the police have to find the driver’s license photo of the alleged driver and then issue the ticket. This one East Bay city has recently initiated a “cold case squad” to go to greater lengths to find out who was driving when the owner does NOT snitch and return the “nomination” form. This one city reports that of 1,200 violations only about half receive real tickets and the rest (owners) receive the fake tickets. Of the fake tickets about 250 are never returned by the owners listing the drivers info. The 250 are the ones the “cold case squad” are going after. It’s all about the money, you see.
Steve – Erin contacted me about this very same scenario. I believe you were stopped before turning from a one-way onto a one-way. In Erin’s photo/video the straight through traffic in the lane to her right had a green light. The question is why was there a red arrow when there was no cross traffic? Could this be a malfunction? I suggest getting an extension to buy some time and send a public records request for signal light timing charts for that intersection and calling city engineers and asking about that. You should post results or please give them to me. Wait to see if you get a ticket. Erin did. Ticket will be mailed to your friend and might be a fake ticket and in any event ask friend to NOT snitch you out. Ask him to hold off for advice (unless he really is not your friend) rlouisj@aol.com
Steve: Were cited under 21453(c)? A couple other people emailed me about Fell and Masonic – both turning left from a 1-way onto a 1-way. Both had stopped past the limit line. Here is my 2-cents: Examine the language of 21453(c)
(c) A driver facing a steady red arrow signal shall not enter the intersection to make the movement indicated by the arrow and
I think it is the 2nd line which defines “entry into the intersection” – check vehicle code and California MUTCD for definition of intersection. I thought I read somewhere it is the line (whether painted or not) from one corner to the next. The language seems to say that if one stops prior to entering the intersection (when facing a red arrow) it is not an infraction. It does not say stopping before the first limit line is prohibited.
Roger
Protest Red Light Cameras
March 17 – Saturday in Fremont
12:00 Noon
Corner of Mowry Ave. and Fremont Blvd.
pick up signs behind Valero Gas Station on the corner.
“It’ all about revenue and NOT safety.”
Thanks Roger and Karen.
I wanted to respond to Rogers question from February 12th about who the judge was that reduced my red light ticket from 480 to 240 and also if others in the room were offered the same deal. Michael Beggert Room A was my judge. Real nice, real easy to approach, very laid back. He was offering everyone with a red light ticket the 240.00 deal if they pleaded guilty. Hope this helps.
Hi,
My question is, 12 days ago I was driving a rented U-Haul truck at night and misjudged the distance between myself and the intersection. I’d stepped on the gas a little in order to clear the yellow light, but it turned red and I got flashed, but as far as I could tell, only from the front. Does anyone have experience with how long it takes for the ticket to be sent to U-Haul and then get forwarded to me? Is it 2 months? Is there any way I can find out sooner if this ticket is coming or not? Because not only will I have this red light ticket, but probably a ticket for speeding, as well as another fine if U-Haul charges a “processing fee” to pass the ticket along to me, all totaling to probably more than $600, not to mention 2-4 points off my license. The truck I was driving did not have a front plate, but it did have some kind of a fleet number or something printed across the front left bumper, and the camera was to my right. How likely is it that, in the absence of a license plate, my city will be able to track down the truck I was driving just by that number printed on the bumper? If there had been a flash behind me, might I have missed it, or are they so bright that I’d KNOW if I got flashed from behind? Thanks so much for any input.
Steve and Erin – Concerning the intersection of Fell and Masonic. Please post the results if you go to trial. Feedback is important.