UPDATE 10/19/2005: 9 months after the ticket, I got the appeal decision in the mail. I won!
Like many cities in California, San Francisco has been using Automated Enforcement Systems (a.k.a. “Red Light Cameras”) at many of its intersections for several years now. Although the stated purpose is (of course) for safety, the real reason is revenue. If you are the unlucky recipient of one of the citations in the mail (as yours truly recently was) then this website is for you. It explains your options and relates my experience with the San Francisco court system.
Your choices:
- The picture isn’t of you. The registered owner is who gets sent the ticket. If the picture is not of you, sign the attached affidavit saying that the picture isn’t of you. Don’t lie — you’re saying under the penalty of purjury that it’s not you in the ticket. DO NOT, however, TELL THEM WHO IS IN THE PICTURE. It’s their job to figure that out, not yours. Don’t rat out your friends and family.
- Pay it. If $371 is worth less to you than a lost morning in court, then just pay the ticket and move on. You may or may not want to do traffic school to keep the points from appearing on your license. While I’ve never done it myself, I hear the on-line version of traffic school is fairly painless.
- Trial + Traffic school. This is probably the best option for most people. Go to the clerk. Post bail (the amount of your ticket) and plead not-guilty.  Get a time for trial. SHOW UP ON TIME. When the court session starts, the clerk will allow you to have your fine reduced to only $50 if you take traffic school (with a $30 fee). For a total of $80, you’re done and the points are not added to your license. NOTE: If you’ve already done traffic school in the past 18 months, you’re not eligible to do it again. Sorry.
- Plead not-guilty. Lots of options here. You can skip the arraignment and demand your right to a speedy trial (within 45 days) by going to the clerk and posting the $371 bond. Sometimes, due to the short notice, the officer isn’t properly subpoenaed and won’t know that he/she needs to testify against you (this happened in my case). If the officer doesn’t appear to testify, your case is dismissed. Or, the officer could already be in court to testify against other people and will realize that she needs to testify against you too, and will testify anyway (yep, this happened to me).Or, you can go to your arraignment and plead not-guilty there. This gives you the chance to make pre-trial motions. This makes the process very drawn-out — expect your trial date to be many months in the future.
Pleading not-guilty
NOTE WELL: This takes a lot of time and will really try your patience. DO NOT EXPECT TO WIN. In fact, you should expect to lose. Sorry, but the trial court for traffic and other infractions in San Francisco assumes GUILT. Moreover, the red light camera systems are considered infallible and therefore beyond reproach. AGAIN, YOU WILL LOSE.
Don’t waste your time
- People often say that with traffic cases you should plead not-guilty and take your chances that the officer won’t show up. (If the officer doesn’t show up, your case is immediately dismissed.) I would agree with this strategy for all non-red light camera tickets. However, from what I can tell, the officers assisting with the red light camera prosecutions do not have normal police “beats”, and instead have a desk job, probably in the same building. This means they have a high liklihood of showing up.
- If you are planning to contend that you don’t run red lights, you are a safe driver, and you’ve never done it before, do not waste your time. (Most murderers haven’t murdered anyone before, either.) You will be found GUILTY. Your fine will be lowered to $300, but they won’t grant you traffic school. You are better off taking the $80 buy-off deal mentioned above.
- If you are planning to contend that the light was really yellow and the camera was wrong or broken, DO NOT WASTE YOUR TIME. You will be found GUILTY. I promise. Don’t forget the the cameras are considered infallible by the trial court judge. Even if it was broken!
Argue the law
While the cameras themselves might be considered infallible, the city has errored in the way they are set up and operated. You should expect to LOSE at trial even if you object to the evidence on these grounds. HOWEVER, these MAY help you get your ticket overturned in appeal. That’s right, if you want any chance of winning, you will have to APPEAL. This takes a lot of time and energy. If you’re fed up and willing to put in the time it takes to appeal, then go ahead and plead not-guilty. Otherwise, don’t waste your time and take the $80 buy-out deal.
What to do:
- Buy the book Fight Your Ticket in California from Nolo Press. Make sure you get thee one specifically for California.
- Go to the Hall of Justice (850 Bryant St.) with a copy of your citation many weeks before your trial. Parking hint: You can park on 6th street after 9am. so show up at 8:59 and you’ll have all the free parking you want. Otherwise you might have to pay the garages that charge $6 for the first 1/2 hour. Go to the 5th floor, turn right at the hallway, and go to the end. This is the Police Legal department. Tell the friendly officers (really, they have always been very friendly in this office) that you want to fill out an “Informal discovery request”. They will give you a short form. Fill it out, and the City’s “Photo prosecution packet” will be sent to you. This is exactly what they will present at trial, which is always a good thing to have beforehand.
Issues:
(For a good overview of many of these issues, read Highwayrobbery.net).
- The city has not property issued warning tickets as required by 21455.5. CVC (California vehicle code) 21455.5 allows cities to put up Automated Enforcement Systems if they follow the guidelines set forth in the statue. One of the statutes is that “Prior to issuing citations under this section, a local jurisdiction utilizing an automated traffic enforcement system shall commence a program to issue only warning notices for 30 days.” While most cities (I believe San Francisco is included) took this to mean warning tickets only needed to be issued 30 days before the first camera in a city, a recent court ruling in Southern California mandated that EACH camera is succeptible to the 30-day rule. At trial, I suggest asking the prosecution’s witness (the officer) if they issued only warning tickets for the first 30 days of YOUR camera’s operation.
- CVC 21455.5 also has very strict requirement with respect to intersection signage. 21455.5(a) basically says the city has to label an AES-enabled intersection from all sides. There is one exception: if they choose not to label the intersection from all sides, then it can “posts signs at all major entrances to the city, including, at a minimum, freeways, bridges, and state highway routes.” Note that San Francisco DOES NOT post the required signs on major city entrances like bridges, freeways, and state highway routes. Instead, they choose to label major freeway exits. This is not compliant with the letter or the spirit of the law. While some AES-enforced intersections ARE labeled with signage in all direction, many are completely un-labeled meaning the city is falling back on the fact that they think they’ve labeled the “freeways, bridges, and state highway routes”. If you bring this up at trial (as I did) expect to LOSE. By bringing it up at trial, though, you can use it in your appeal.
- Interesting pre-trial motions. Present them at your arraignment. They probably won’t work, but might be useful ammunition during your appeal.
- Try to subpoena the camera’s “source code”. The camera is more than a camera. It’s a computer. You have the right to question your accuser in court. Your accuser is this computer. You should have the right to know exactly how it is programmed. If this motion is granted, you will probably never see the “source code” (it’s a trade secret) and therefore I would expect the prosecution to drop the charges. It’s worth a shot. It will probably help your case if you know how (ie have the credentials) to interpet any “source code” that you might receive.
- The camera is disallowed under California’s “Speed trap” laws. This is a very interesting one, and will take further research. CVC 40801 forbids speed traps in California. “What does this have to do with Red Light Cameras?” you might ask. Well, let me tell you. CVC 40801 says “No peace officer or other person shall use a speed trap in arresting, or participating or assisting in the arrest of, any person for any alleged violation of this code nor shall any speed trap be used in securing evidence as to the speed of any vehicle for the purpose of an arrest or prosecution under this code.” CVS 40802 says “A particular section of a highway measured as to distance and with boundaries marked, designated, or otherwise determined in order that the speed of a vehicle may be calculated by securing the time it takes the vehicle to travel the known distance.” What does this mean to you? Well, the Red Light Computer decided to take a picture of you because you were headed for the intersection at a rate of speed high enough to assume that you were going to go past the ‘stop line’. It knew this because there are coils of wire in the pavement in each lane that are a set distance apart. It calculated your speed by securing the time it takes your vehicle to travel the known distance. Sound familiar? CVC 40801 now says they can’t use this evidence to prosecute you. But they did anyway, and now you have grounds to fight it. I didn’t try this angle, but I have a feeling you’ll LOSE if you do. But I want to hear about how it went, so write to me.
I’d love to hear from you. Write to me at aren /at/ thesandersens dotcom with your experiences.
Yes, you’re safe — no front plate = no ticket.
hey aren, the other day i ran a yellow light and it turn red and i think i saw the flash. the car is not under my name and i have no insurance. what should i expect? the owner of the car is my friend and i don’t know what to expect. what should i do?
forgot to mention it was in Sacramento on florin road but forgot the cross street.
Around 11pm yesterday I was coming home from my sisters house and I am always careful of my speed and stopping in time of the light and so on my way to drop my brother in law and his son home and as I believe I was around 200 feet away from the light it was still green and as I looked down a few seconds to make sure I didn’t go over speed limit and as soon as I looked up I don’t know how long the light have turned yellow so I had to quickly brake and as soon as I stopped on time while the light have turn red for couple seconds the camera took my picture (with my brother in law and his son in the car). It was a hard brake and I did not make it to the intersection nor was there any crosswalk line. So I’m wondering if I’m going to get a ticket for it? After reading some of the people’s comment I’m afraid they might think I ran the light because of my last minute brake. Also the car is under my sisters name and my mom and the address is under my sisters’ name. If they was to received the mail, what is the best way to handle this, even if it was a blurry or clear picture?
On May 25, 2010 the Superior Court of California , County of Orange Appellate Division published the results of case 30-2009-00304893 trial count case number: SA12876PE
Basically the appeals court through out a lower courts conviction based on the fact that “the photographs contain hearsay evidence concerning the matters depicted in the photograph including the date, time and other information.” It went on to explain that there were no witnesses to testify about any of the technology, records, etc. and that the only person testifying (local police officer) was lacking specific knowledge regarding the technology. The appeals court also address exceptons to hearsay and official records.
I’m not a lawyer, but my question is – Given this rulling by an appeals court of california I would think that this case is ground for supporting a dismissal argument of a red light infraction.
What are your thoughts
Hi Aren,
Thanks for the Reply. I have obtained the trial date which is in May’11. If there is a fair chance of Judge finding me guilty, there is no point in going to trial. Kind of newbee Question, Can I go to the court before the trial date and withdraw the trial, and pay the fine with traffic school option? Or should I have to wait till the trial day? I am not sure whether the Judge allows me to take up the Traffic school at the trial. Unable to decide anything! – Thanks
i drove my brothers car to sf and i ran a light not on purpose. they sent him a letter to apper in a month. the letter had pix of me and not him. will he get a ticket and will they look for the driver?
Aren,
Great blog. Anyone that has gotten one of these instantly feels like they’re being stabbed in the heart by the gov’t. I received a “courtesy warning” notice” and it says I owe the $466. I checked online and it comes up. My citation date was 7/21 and my due date is 8/25. I was reading the rules on:
http://www.sfsuperiorcourt.org/index.aspx?page=186
and it says “The citation will state when and where the violation occurred. It will include a photo of the vehicle in the intersection, a close-up of the driver and the vehicle’s license plate.”
My citation does not say where it happened or have any pictures. I would think this is a huge point of contention, or is there another citation sent out that usually includes photos and the specifics?
Thanks.
@sam: if your friend gets the ticket, he/she can go to court and say it’s not him/her. They do not have to tell the court who is in the photo. Note that when you are borrowing a friend’s car, oftentimes you are covered under their insurance.
@MSX: I don’t think you’ll be getting a ticket. They rarely issue tickets when you didn’t go through the intersection.
@Dave: I’m aware of that appeal and I think it’s long overdue. However, depending on where you live, that case does not set a precedent since it was in Superior Court. Definitely try the same argument in your town, though, and it doesn’t hurt to bring up that judge’s ruling even though it is not binding.
@Akshya: you should be able to go to the clerk at any time to change your plea.
@John: Does the picture look like him? If not, your brother should go to court and testify that he was not driving. He does not have to give up who was driving, despite what the police will say.
@Aric: Something is missing. They have to send you photos of the infraction. It might have just been lost in the mail — call the issuing police department and ask to come in to see the evidence since you never got it in the mail.
Has anyone on this website or anyone else you know received a ticket in the mail from the REAR license plate only..meaning I did not have a front plate but did see 2 flashes but I was only making aleft onto chestnut from el camino real on the green arrow but the flashes still went off…when I reached the intersection…Just curious. Thanks
Mike
Thank you very much Aren for all the advice and clarifications.
Oh Gosh. Feelin pretty stressed here. I went through the intersection at Geary and Franklin this morning and saw the flashes and I was the only one crossing. The light turned yellow, but I could swear that my front end had crossed the first line while it was still yellow. Who know…I guess I will find out soon. If my front bumper did in fact make it past the first line, will I still get a ticket? Do they just shoot tickets all day, and then go back and review them all and pick and choose who ever they think that they can prove ran the red beyond a reasonable doubt? Thanks in advance.
Rob
Wow, this is a great resource!
A couple of days ago, while driving my mom’s car, I think i ran a red light at park presidio and fulton. The light was yellow, and i was only going about 20-30mph towards golden gate park. The light changed to red just as i crossed the first crosswalk, so i didnt have anytime to stop. I didn’t see any flashes in front of me, but im not sure about behind me. Do you think i will get a ticket? And what is the best way to handle this situation? Thanks!
Seems I’m not the only one who was caught at Park Presidio and Lake. I was turning right and caught on camera. Does the .9 mean the light was red for that long when I passed the white line? How do they prove I didn’t stop before I went ahead and turned right?
I know in the court system in San mateo one can appear on or before their due date and go before the judge, not a trial, and probably get a reduced fine even pleading guilty. When I called SF court the person said there isn’t the same method in SF. Is that true or can I go to the court and expect a similar thing? Is the only way to even hope to get a lower fine and/or dismissed to request and appear in trial? I think I stopped before turning but not sure…should I plead not guilty? Or…my court date is quite soon…Sept. 15.
Any specific information would be appreciated.
Thank you.
Donna
@Mike — depends on the city, some of them have video cameras behind.
@Rob — they do pick and choose. Wait a few weeks, see if you get one.
@Annie — if you didn’t see flashes, you might be ok. wait a few weeks and see if one comes in the mail.
@Donna — .9 means the camera thinks the light was red for almost a second before you crossed the ‘stop’ line. To prove that you didn’t stop first, they will present the speed at which you were traveling (it’s on the ticket, prefixed with V=). The only way to get a lower fine is to go to court — they used to give discounts but I’m hearing they don’t offer them anymore.
Hi Aren,
I have been checking with the SF Superior Court Traffic Division for the last week and will continue to do so for the next week or two. I don’t have any citations under my drivers license yet, but the message says that the issuing agency has up to 90 days to forward the citation to the court. I’m kind of confused about the 15 day thing that you and others have mentioned here. Will you please clarify this for me? Thanks again. Your information is a big help.
Rob
Aren, thank you for this wonderful site.
I recently went to California and the rental car company told me I was captured by camera for a right turn at red light.
the first photo showed that my car is just behind the cross-line. the speed is recorded to be 10mph
the second photo showed that 0.4 seconds later, my car is at the same place behind the cross line (but the photo has a different angle). the speed is still 10mph
The third photos showed that 3 seconds later, my car is turning right.
My question is, first, even in California, one can still make a legal right turn with red light. I had a full 3 second in between.
second, since I am not flying back to California just for this. Does that mean I have no choice but to admit guilt?
third, will that increase my insurance? I live in Texas.
Thank you so much.
Hi Aren,
I got a $466 red light violation citation at Van Ness and 14th street. I was behind the white lines after 0.5 seconds the lights turned red. After reading all the posts here and somewhere, I am motivated to take my chances in contesting it. But I am worried about only one thing, by contesting my ticket does it mean that I won’t be able to attend traffic school? Or the traffic school option is at Judge’s discretion?
BTW, thanks a lot for replying to all the questions here. It’s a great resource.
-Rajesh
Hi Aren,
Tonight while driving I did not realize that I was in the left turning lane and ended up running a red arrow but changed lanes to the right and continued straight. Do you know if I will get a ticket? Is the camera set at a fixed angle or does it takes shots of multiple lanes? Any comments is greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Just got a ticket Sept 10, 2010. $466 + $52 admin fee for traffic school + traffic school cost. Yikes. Has anyone tried to get the fee reduced recently?
Hi !
I’ve got a ticket for making rolling left turn on red from Franklin to Geary in San Francisco( they are both one-way) . It’s 466$ and 52$ for traffic school. Violation happened Aug 29.
Couple of questions
AB 909 . I understand it passed voting few days ago and goes to “Ahh-nold” for signature, so when it signed to law the fines hopefylly will be reduced. Would it catch in my case ? I need to post bail before Sep 28 2010.
80$ fine + school. I am eligible for school and if this 80$ deal is true I would take it immediately. The problem is it sounds to good to be true. Does it really work or it’s an urban myth ?
Hello Aren,
Last Saturday of September 18, around 8, 8:30 pm, I was driving in California off of N Grand Ave and E Badillo St. in Covina Ca, trying to catch the 10 FWY, but I had stopped to late on the red light and seen flashes, BUT did not go on, I had stopped fully and didn’t move was NOT in the intersection @ all. Would there be a possibility of me getting a ticket, I also have no license plate in front? New car haven’t had time to put it on.
Please advise. Thank you very much. – Vanessa
Hi,
I hired an attorney last year to help me fight my red-light camera ticket here in SF. I just found out that the Judge ruled against me. My attorney says I might have a chance by appealing- I’m wondering if you know about this or if people have had luck by doing this. My attorney (who’s from LA but handles cases all over CA) says that the judges here in the City are the toughest.
Hi Aren, what a useful site! Thanks.
I was going back to Marin, north on Franklin, at Geary at 8:30pm, loud fire engine sirens couldn’t see where, everybody sped up trying to pull over. I went through a yellow/ then maybe red intersection, two flashes. In the next block I finally saw the fire engine roaring behind me on Franklin, turned off to the right a few blocks later. I wouldn’t have run the light without that huge siren. Called the SF FD as soon as I got home, ($400 ticket, oh no!) and they said they could find a record of the fire engine on Franklin at 8:30pm “if they had to”. What’s the prognosis for me? There’s probably no Fire Engine in the red light picture, but I can probably prove it was on the street at the time, going my way. And, again, thanks for the site, it’s awesome.
Hi Aren-
I was issued a red light vilolation ticket by a cop who pulled me over in downtown SF in the SOMA area. Basically a big truck in front of me was blocking the yellow from my view and I was following it close and ended up running the red light. A cop happened to be sitting at a light right there and pulled me over. Do you reccomend that I just go to Bryant Street, post bail, plead not-guilty, ask for trial and hope the cop doesn’t show up? Or something else.
Thanks so much. You rock.
-Mike
@Rob — The law says they have 15 days to mail it to you. They don’t always follow this law, but that’s what it says.
@Jessie — You can do a trial by written declaration, where you write in to the court. Almost zero chance of it working, in my opinion. Insurance companies are usually forgiving about a single outstanding traffic ticket.
@Rajesh — It’s at the judge’s discretion. If I had to guess, I’d say once you contest the judge will not grant traffic school. I don’t understand your description, but if the camera says you were .5 seconds late, you better have a very compelling defense.
@Vel — Not sure. Did you see flashes? Well, it’s been over 15 days, so you’ll know by now if you got a ticket.
@Rob — Recent reports say the court is not issuing discounts.
@Vl — Arnold vetoed AB 909. The $80 deal is no more, according to reports.
@Vanessa — unlikely that you’ll get a ticket for that.
@Val — I appealed and won. It’s probably not worth it, especially if you’re using a lawyer.
@George — decent case, especially if you get your hands on the record of the fire truck being on the street. Did you get a violation in the mail?
@Mike — They got you the old fashioned way… so rare. Either pay it or take your chances the officer doesn’t show. Personally I’d go for traffic school, if eligible.
Hi Aren:
I received a “Courtesy Warning Notice” about camera red light violation 21 days after it occur (the notice date was 18 days after the occurance). How should go about fighting this one (by the 15 day limit Vehicle Code)? Thanks
They also have not sent me any photos or telling me where this happens – looks like the same thing as Aric at Aug 23, 2010 on your blog. Wonder what happened to Aric’s situation. What the reasons are for sending photos to some and not others. And not even telling us the location of the occurance
Hi Aren,
Just received my ticket today for running a red light ($466) in Millbrae (San Mateo County). I went through the intersection thinking that I could make the yellow light, but ended up not being able to do so. The red light cameras got me.
I am guilty, but are their any ways I could go about lowering my fine? Any suggestions? I’m a bit tight on money at the moment.
Thanks for your help!
Emily
Has anybody gone to trial and challenged the foundation – whether the city followed the proper steps in installing camera, signs, sending warning tickets etc.
What was your experience?
Hello Aren & everyone else!
Does anyone know if San Francisco STILL only takes pictures from the front?? & I’m not sure but I think I was almost at the end of the intersection & i saw two flashes. :c I really hope I don’t get a ticket. I didn’t even see if there was anyone else crossing because I got so scared. I’ve never gotten any kind of ticket so I have no idea of what could happen if I do get one.
Also, it seems like if you don’t have a front license plate (ive read every single post in this website!) you’re off the hook! Can we get a ticket for not having it? If not, I’m going to take it off right now. :]
Thank you!
Hi Aren,
Just got a red light flash on me at 15th and mission. It was the game where the giants won the world series night. Lots of traffic. I wasnt paying attention looking at the oncoming cars. I realized too late it was red and just rolled through it slowly while it flashed. You mentioned a cop looks at the pictures and decides if he considers it to be a violation. What do you think the chances are that it will get dismissed? Also…I am in a bad time right now for a 466 dollar fine. How long before you have to pay it?
Hello Aren,
I just drove home in San Francisco and took a new route for me – Oak to Octavia and then turn right on Octavia for the freeway. It was 10pm and I was stopped on the red light. There was road construction in the right lane. Anyway there are 2 right turns there one to the highway and an immediate right onto a small street. I looked for ‘no turn on right’ signs and could not see any and after several seconds there was no one coming from the left and I turned very slowly into the closest right – the small street. When I realized that I should have taken the other right turn for the highway – I went round the block.
When I returned to the same intersection I made the right turn for the highway correctly on green. However, at that point I saw a ‘no right turn’ sign in between the traffic lights on a bar that extends across the intersection. I was wondering why I had not seen that sign sooner when I stopped, looked for such a sign and when there was no traffic from the left lanes I made my right turn onto the small street to my immediate right… so I went round the block to check it out again.
Then I saw that the ‘no right turn’ sign is tightly mounted between two traffic lights and that when they were red the blare of the light burns out much of the sign – so now I am bummed and probably will get a ticket. I was thinking of going back and taking a photo.
What to you think I should do? it sounds like the trial and traffic court is not an option for discount tickets any more – I appreciate any advice. Thank you.
Hi
I was driving up van ness at bush, stuck behind another slow moving vehicle that slowed through an intersection, then sped. I went into the intersection (specifically the front of the car passed the entering side crosswalk) while the light was orange. It then turned red while I was in the intersection and as I moved through the intersection there were two flashes.
As the same time i was having trouble shifting gears (cuz of car in front of me and slowing down), hence my not getting out of there faster.
Anyways.. am I gonna get a ticket? And if i do, will I be able to argue about entering on orange or is it clear cut to them when they review the files. And can I do the appealing through the mail?
Thanks so much!
Dear Aren,
The same thing happened to me as for Emily(posted on Oct 18th). I crossed the Millbrae/El Camino intersection thinking that I could beat the yellow. The Cameras got me. I crossed the limit line 0.5 seconds after the red. I received a citation for $466 + $57 for traffic school. I have no story. I was in a hurry and I thought that I made it through the first limit line so I continued through the intersection. This is my first citation in my 10 years of driving. And out of nervousness, I paid my bail already. After reading your site, it seems like judges can grant a fine reduction? Is that something that I can still try to fight for even though I paid the bail already? My appearance date is at the end of November. Should I still try to appear before then and talk with the judge? Do they grant fee reductions for first time violators who plead guilty? And if a fee reduction is granted, can I still attend traffic school?
Any help would be appreciated. Thank you!
@megan — if you want to fight on the 15-day notice grounds, please email me. It’s complicated.
@emily — go to your arraignment and ask for reduced bail. the judges often grant it.
@RJ — it’s a tough case, but it can work.
@Einahpets — yep, still only from the front in SF.
@jet — did you see any flashes of light?
@linda — if you were already in the intersection on yellow, then the flashes were not for you.
@starbud — go to arraignment and ask for a bail reduction. they will likely grant you one.
Can you please send me info on dismissing a red light ticket for not complying with the 15-day requirement of 40518? The ticket was issued 2 months after the date of violation. I went to court for the arraignment and asked to demurrer but was denied and now trial is set for next week. Thanks!
All attempts of humor aside Aren what do you suggest I do?
All:
Just an update on ticket reduction if you go to court. The bailiff did make the offer. $292 bail + $52 admin fee. Total $346. I’m not sure that it’s worth all of the time spent for $120 but if you need to save a few $ it still works.
i think i might be getting one of these tickets. I was visiting SF and on the last day driving down van ness to get to 101, didnt see the light (not used to where they are in SF) and went thru it… anyways, my plates are not from CA will I still get a ticket sent to me?
Thanks for your help Aren!
Aren,
I’m in the process of researching red light violations in San Mateo (Hillsdale and Norfolk). I first ran into this blog (good info, and thanks for the responses). I then read this site: http://www.highwayrobbery.net
HighwayRoberry.net has some extensive information on the subject! Looks like they’ve put a LOT of time into this. I’m going to look at “Defect #4″ in particular, as I’m not convinced about the postings of PHOTO ENFORCED signs at this intersection (coming in from the highway).
Finally, I read this guy’s story: http://www.hexabus.com/blog/?p=30
which is pretty much exactly what’s going on in the case I’m looking at.
So I’m curious, are you familiar with the “Snitch/Phishing” notices described in HigwayRobbery.net? I guess there is a chance that if the face is too blurry a follow up “real” notice may NOT be sent, but I’m not counting on that.
I figure in the end the reduced fine will be the best route. But in Herman’s case, he does say that the REAL notice showed up a couple of weeks after the SNITCH notice, which would put it past the 15 days… depending on that and the PHOTO ENFORCED signs there may be some hope.
Thanks again,
RC
Hi Aren,
I received one of these red light tickets in the mail for a car registered in my name. I was not the one driving the car at the time. I know I can tell them that I was not the one driving and I also don’t have to reveal who the driver was. Do they usually go back and check tickets in their data base to find out who the driver is? Or do they just dismiss the case and forget about it? I don’t want to get the person who was driving in trouble.
Hi Aren,
Thanks in advance for your help with this. I was coming home from work this evening and took the the 5th street exit of 80 west (coming off the bay bridge). I was late entering the intersection when making a left onto Harrison from 5th. I think there is a camera at this intersection, but is it a four way camera? Any info on whether this camera takes pictures from coming from a specific direction? Again, I appreciate any helpful info.
One more question Aren,
Is community service an option to get significant reduction in the fine assessed for a stop light violation?
Got a ticket for a taking a right on red light without stopping.
Saw the video and it shows i didnot stop but there were cars coming from the other side and no one crossing. Teh fine is $486 which is really steep.
Is there any way to get the fine reduced? I have read about the trail and traffic school. Does it still apply now in Nov 2010 in CA?
How should one proceed. Do i go to the clerk and say i want a trail and or
just ask them if they can reduce the fine?
TIA
Aren,
Was just googling this subject and ran across this page. I was just out driving (about midnight here now) and I came to a stop inside the crosswalk in the right turn lane of an intersection that was marked “photo enforced” but not marked “no right turn on red.” I realize it may be technically a violation since I violated the crosswalk, but is the system set up to get me for this? I only saw the one flash. I was going pretty fast when I crossed the line but I did stop completely before crossing the second line by breaking hard (not because of the camera…just because I do that sometimes when I’m out alone) and didn’t even end up making the turn until green since the flash tipped me off that the intersection was mad at me 😉
I am in southern california, not San Francisco like you. Does it sound like I will get a ticket? Is it possible they take pictures a fraction of a second apart to guage your speed and will argue that it’s unlikely I would break that hard? I’m pretty sure I only saw one flash, or at least only 1 that was perceptable to humans (maybe they take multiple ones above the flicker thresshold to calculate your speed?)
If I do get a ticket, is it possible to get it reduced or dismissed if I plead guilty and say (truthfully) that I thought the 2nd line was the legal one? I didn’t realize the crosswalk was off limits until googling it tonight.
Thanks
Aren, signal light was out, flashing red in all directions and I didnt come to a exact full stop and got flashed but it seemed late into my turn, Can I expect a tic even if the signal light was malfuctioning? I parked and watched this happen to others and saw others roll through and get nothing.
@Jonathan — email the guy who runs HighwayRobbery.net and ask for the info on demurring.
@Jackie — yes, there’s a good chance you’ll still get one. Let me know, would be good info.
@RC — Yep, HighwayRobbery.net is awesome. Amazing source of info nation-wide on this topic. My little blog only focuses on SF. As far as I know, SF does not send snitch notices.
@John — they will put a little bit of work into finding the driver (like checking other drivers in the same household). Other than that, they’re going to try to get you to rat them out.
@Ross — don’t know about that particular camera, sorry. And I don’t believe community service is still an option.
@Anonymous — Go to court. They will lower the fine in exchange for a guilty plea.
@David — one flash usually means you’re OK.
@Al: $346 is a deal – you did good; congratulations. They usually wont reduce it that much
@Ross: there IS some type of community service. There is some sort of non-profit where you can work for $x/HR to pay off your ticket in SF. I cannot recall the name, but you should ask about it. I know it exists because the guy in front of me requested it and the judge said yes, and gave him details on how to sign up.