San Francisco Red Light Camera Tickets

UPDATE 10/19/2005: 9 months after the ticket, I got the appeal decision in the mail. I won!

Like many cities in California, San Francisco has been using Automated Enforcement Systems (a.k.a. “Red Light Cameras”) at many of its intersections for several years now. Although the stated purpose is (of course) for safety, the real reason is revenue. If you are the unlucky recipient of one of the citations in the mail (as yours truly recently was) then this website is for you. It explains your options and relates my experience with the San Francisco court system.

Your choices:

  • The picture isn’t of you. The registered owner is who gets sent the ticket. If the picture is not of you, sign the attached affidavit saying that the picture isn’t of you. Don’t lie — you’re saying under the penalty of purjury that it’s not you in the ticket. DO NOT, however, TELL THEM WHO IS IN THE PICTURE. It’s their job to figure that out, not yours. Don’t rat out your friends and family.
  • Pay it. If $371 is worth less to you than a lost morning in court, then just pay the ticket and move on. You may or may not want to do traffic school to keep the points from appearing on your license. While I’ve never done it myself, I hear the on-line version of traffic school is fairly painless.
  • Trial + Traffic school. This is probably the best option for most people. Go to the clerk.  Post bail (the amount of your ticket) and plead not-guilty.  Get a time for trial. SHOW UP ON TIME. When the court session starts, the clerk will allow you to have your fine reduced to only $50 if you take traffic school (with a $30 fee). For a total of $80, you’re done and the points are not added to your license. NOTE: If you’ve already done traffic school in the past 18 months, you’re not eligible to do it again. Sorry.
  • Plead not-guilty. Lots of options here. You can skip the arraignment and demand your right to a speedy trial (within 45 days) by going to the clerk and posting the $371 bond. Sometimes, due to the short notice, the officer isn’t properly subpoenaed and won’t know that he/she needs to testify against you (this happened in my case). If the officer doesn’t appear to testify, your case is dismissed. Or, the officer could already be in court to testify against other people and will realize that she needs to testify against you too, and will testify anyway (yep, this happened to me).Or, you can go to your arraignment and plead not-guilty there. This gives you the chance to make pre-trial motions. This makes the process very drawn-out — expect your trial date to be many months in the future.

Pleading not-guilty

NOTE WELL: This takes a lot of time and will really try your patience. DO NOT EXPECT TO WIN. In fact, you should expect to lose. Sorry, but the trial court for traffic and other infractions in San Francisco assumes GUILT. Moreover, the red light camera systems are considered infallible and therefore beyond reproach. AGAIN, YOU WILL LOSE.

Don’t waste your time

  • People often say that with traffic cases you should plead not-guilty and take your chances that the officer won’t show up. (If the officer doesn’t show up, your case is immediately dismissed.) I would agree with this strategy for all non-red light camera tickets. However, from what I can tell, the officers assisting with the red light camera prosecutions do not have normal police “beats”, and instead have a desk job, probably in the same building. This means they have a high liklihood of showing up.
  • If you are planning to contend that you don’t run red lights, you are a safe driver, and you’ve never done it before, do not waste your time. (Most murderers haven’t murdered anyone before, either.) You will be found GUILTY. Your fine will be lowered to $300, but they won’t grant you traffic school. You are better off taking the $80 buy-off deal mentioned above.
  • If you are planning to contend that the light was really yellow and the camera was wrong or broken, DO NOT WASTE YOUR TIME. You will be found GUILTY. I promise. Don’t forget the the cameras are considered infallible by the trial court judge. Even if it was broken!

Argue the law

While the cameras themselves might be considered infallible, the city has errored in the way they are set up and operated. You should expect to LOSE at trial even if you object to the evidence on these grounds. HOWEVER, these MAY help you get your ticket overturned in appeal. That’s right, if you want any chance of winning, you will have to APPEAL. This takes a lot of time and energy. If you’re fed up and willing to put in the time it takes to appeal, then go ahead and plead not-guilty. Otherwise, don’t waste your time and take the $80 buy-out deal.

What to do:

  • Buy the book Fight Your Ticket in California from Nolo Press. Make sure you get thee one specifically for California.
  • Go to the Hall of Justice (850 Bryant St.) with a copy of your citation many weeks before your trial. Parking hint: You can park on 6th street after 9am. so show up at 8:59 and you’ll have all the free parking you want. Otherwise you might have to pay the garages that charge $6 for the first 1/2 hour. Go to the 5th floor, turn right at the hallway, and go to the end. This is the Police Legal department. Tell the friendly officers (really, they have always been very friendly in this office) that you want to fill out an “Informal discovery request”. They will give you a short form. Fill it out, and the City’s “Photo prosecution packet” will be sent to you. This is exactly what they will present at trial, which is always a good thing to have beforehand.

Issues:

(For a good overview of many of these issues, read Highwayrobbery.net).

  • The city has not property issued warning tickets as required by 21455.5. CVC (California vehicle code) 21455.5 allows cities to put up Automated Enforcement Systems if they follow the guidelines set forth in the statue. One of the statutes is that “Prior to issuing citations under this section, a local jurisdiction utilizing an automated traffic enforcement system shall commence a program to issue only warning notices for 30 days.” While most cities (I believe San Francisco is included) took this to mean warning tickets only needed to be issued 30 days before the first camera in a city, a recent court ruling in Southern California mandated that EACH camera is succeptible to the 30-day rule. At trial, I suggest asking the prosecution’s witness (the officer) if they issued only warning tickets for the first 30 days of YOUR camera’s operation.
  • CVC 21455.5 also has very strict requirement with respect to intersection signage. 21455.5(a) basically says the city has to label an AES-enabled intersection from all sides. There is one exception: if they choose not to label the intersection from all sides, then it can “posts signs at all major entrances to the city, including, at a minimum, freeways, bridges, and state highway routes.” Note that San Francisco DOES NOT post the required signs on major city entrances like bridges, freeways, and state highway routes. Instead, they choose to label major freeway exits. This is not compliant with the letter or the spirit of the law. While some AES-enforced intersections ARE labeled with signage in all direction, many are completely un-labeled meaning the city is falling back on the fact that they think they’ve labeled the “freeways, bridges, and state highway routes”. If you bring this up at trial (as I did) expect to LOSE. By bringing it up at trial, though, you can use it in your appeal.
  • Interesting pre-trial motions. Present them at your arraignment. They probably won’t work, but might be useful ammunition during your appeal.
    • Try to subpoena the camera’s “source code”. The camera is more than a camera. It’s a computer. You have the right to question your accuser in court. Your accuser is this computer. You should have the right to know exactly how it is programmed. If this motion is granted, you will probably never see the “source code” (it’s a trade secret) and therefore I would expect the prosecution to drop the charges. It’s worth a shot. It will probably help your case if you know how (ie have the credentials) to interpet any “source code” that you might receive.
  • The camera is disallowed under California’s “Speed trap” laws. This is a very interesting one, and will take further research. CVC 40801 forbids speed traps in California. “What does this have to do with Red Light Cameras?” you might ask. Well, let me tell you. CVC 40801 says “No peace officer or other person shall use a speed trap in arresting, or participating or assisting in the arrest of, any person for any alleged violation of this code nor shall any speed trap be used in securing evidence as to the speed of any vehicle for the purpose of an arrest or prosecution under this code.” CVS 40802 says “A particular section of a highway measured as to distance and with boundaries marked, designated, or otherwise determined in order that the speed of a vehicle may be calculated by securing the time it takes the vehicle to travel the known distance.” What does this mean to you? Well, the Red Light Computer decided to take a picture of you because you were headed for the intersection at a rate of speed high enough to assume that you were going to go past the ‘stop line’. It knew this because there are coils of wire in the pavement in each lane that are a set distance apart. It calculated your speed by securing the time it takes your vehicle to travel the known distance. Sound familiar? CVC 40801 now says they can’t use this evidence to prosecute you. But they did anyway, and now you have grounds to fight it. I didn’t try this angle, but I have a feeling you’ll LOSE if you do. But I want to hear about how it went, so write to me.

I’d love to hear from you. Write to me at aren /at/ thesandersens dotcom with your experiences.

933 thoughts on “San Francisco Red Light Camera Tickets”

  1. Emilio: First, visit website: http://highwayrobbery.net/redlightcamsticket.htm
    – – – Do you have a real ticket or a fake ticket? Also, is the photo clear enough to prosecute? There are other things which you might be able to bring up at trial. Contact either me or the editor of that website and provide your citation no. and license plate number.

  2. I received a ticket for a rolling right turn at Howard and 9th Street in San Francisco. The photo evidence provided the ticket only shows me with my signal at a red light, then another picture of me turning (so I presume it is a rolling right that is the issue). The ticket just shows “red light enforcement”. Does SF have video evidence or other to support this charge? Or do they use time lapse to infer that I didn’t stop? I may not have come to a full stop. I cannot recall. I am not traffic school eligible, and want to fight this since I don’t see any evidence here that I failed to stop. Any advice?

  3. @San Jose…Have you accessed the website on the ticket? Is there a video or just still photos available on line? I don’t see how a right turn on red can be enforced without a video. Can you transmit the citation or the Cite# and Pin no.? rlouisj@aol.com

  4. Hello I received a red light photo citation , the photo shows that it is me , can I still plaid not guilty and request trial and traffic school … or can I say it is my twin sister from Italy:)))

  5. The easiest way up avoid the red light ticket is to remove your front plate or have a “temp” one in place. The worse you will get from a cop is a fixit ticket – just say it fell off in the car wash. It’s unlikely you will get pulled over in SF for it.

    I usually am all for being a law abiding citizen, but after I got a red light camera ticket when I avoided crashing into a school bus that was being driven recklessly, I decided SF was more concerned with revenue than stopping real danger.

    Ditch the front plate, and problem solved.

  6. Hi,

    I got a red light ticket at Harrison and Macarthur in Oakland. The photographic evidence is pretty damning indeed. But it’s an intersection just a few blocks from my house that I drive through every day. I have a really hard time believing I ran a red light – I have no memory of doing so. I’m going to contest the ticket – though I don’t have much of an argument. I’m just wondering if anyone has had any luck contesting – and if there is any sense of whether contesting by mail or in person makes a difference.

    Thanks!
    Melissa

  7. Hi I was in san fran this summer visiting from another state. We were driving a rental car and we were lost and I made a right turn not noticing the red light because I was looking at my GPS. The ticket is $480… this is way to expensive for me as I am a college student. This there anyway to reduce this fine or do I have to just write a letter to the county. Please reply back with some hekp. Thanks

  8. @joel…Did you receive a real ticket? It would say to contact the court and it would have the court’s address on it. Is the photo clear enough to identify you beyond a reasonable doubt? It would not hurt to ask the judge at arraignment and/or trial to determine that. If you object a trial to the introduction of any affadavit from the rental car company, then how did the officer identify you as the driver?

  9. Hello,

    Received a “NOTICE TO APPEAR” ON 9/1/2011 16 days after the violation date of 8/16/2011.
    This in the city of San Mateo , CA.
    Do you believe this qualifys for demurring (CVC 40518)???
    I think it does but not sure.

    thnx

  10. Hello,
    I received a red light ticket on Sep 1 2011. I wanted to plead not guilty cos the yellow light was on when i crossed the stop line. when i went to the court house & informed the clerk in the counter on sep 6th that i wanted a trial, he informed he cannot add the information into his computer & i have wait for the camera company to send me a mail then come back to court to req trial. I do not see any forum entry such as this ? It is a genuine ticket [not a snitch].

    thnx

  11. @Kris. You need to provide more information. City. Date of infraction. If you want to provide license plate no. and citation no. that would help in accessing the video.
    rlouisj@aol.com

  12. Thanks for the response @Roger.

    I was cited in SanFrancisco & went to the Hall of Justice in SFO. I do not have a video evidence only jpeg for this cos this was taken by the ACS camera in Presido blvd & fulton. as per my research in highwayrobbery.net there are several defects, there is not sign board warning of photo enforcement on the road, the yellow light is too short for the speed limit [3 sec yellow for 35 mph speed limit] & the pic was taken by ACS camera which would only give you forward facing pics as evidence & no red light or video evidence.

    For these reasons i wanted to plead not guilty & went to San Francisco court. the Clerk told me that he is not able to enter the request in the computer & i have to wait for the Camera company to send me a mail. What i am not sure of is if this is indeed the procedure.

  13. Kris – There is too much information missing to provide any help. If I had any citation no. here in Alameda County, I would simply look up the citation on the Court’s website. With the Citation no. and license plate no. I would simply look up the photos and video. I don’t have any of this information. -Roger

  14. hey roger j. Yes they sent me a ticket with the court address and also there is a picture of me, but it is not very clear. but the picture shows me looking confused at my gps. Is there a possibility that i can get this ticket reduced if I write a letter to the court since i was visiting and also was looking at the gps. I mean we are tourists visiting the city and we were lost, how could they give us a ticket? thanks for your help

  15. Joel. Ask Judge to rule on clarity of photo. This costs nothing. A good judge will not ask you “who was driving?” Just ask the judge to rule on the evidence and dismiss because it is unclear. The argument that you are a visitor and looking at GPS will go no where. Judge would then be saying we have an exception to the law which applies to visitors. He would be in the position of changing the law. That is not his job. What city were you cited in? Help may be available.

  16. I carry a class B license. Because of this, I am not eligable for traffic school ever. I just read all your blogs. Will I get a reduced fine if I can’t attend traffic school? Also, is it best to go to the clerk early and plead not gulity and then return for a trial date with the hopes of getting a “deal” or should I show up on my due date and hope to get the “deal” then. Seems like one less trip. Thanks.

  17. Geoff H: It would be good to know which city issued the citation and which courthouse has jurisdiction. It is not uncommon for police and judges to change the citation to a municipal code violation. Each city has a muni code saying that you must obey traffic signs or signals. Asking the citation to be amended to a Muni Code violation in exchange for a guilty plea is often done. It will not result in a point on your record. You can do this at arraignment,” Judge, I am commercial driver. I will plea guilty to an appropriate muni code violation so that I don’t jeopardize my employment.” “If this cannot be done, I plead Not Guilty.” If you end up pleading Not Guilty, you can do the same thing at or before trial. Then you might negotiate with the police before trial and have them amend the citation.

  18. Hi Roger: I recently got a ticket int he mail for running a red light. I knew it was coming… I remember the flash. I have a few questions for you. First, I was behind a semi and was blocked from view of the stop light while we were stopped at the light. When the semi went, I just followed behind, realizing too late that the light had changed. I doubt that this is ‘excuse’ will hold up to a valid point for dismissal. Secondly, the picture is blurry on the ticket and online as well. I know it is me, but it would be very hard to identify me based on the picture. It looks like a man driving. Could I get dismissal based on unclarity of the photo. My next question is that I have lived in California for 1 year only. I have not yet gotten my drivers license in this state. If I got to court, could I be further fined or penalized for not yet getting my California DL? My ticket is for $480. I just don’t have that kind of money. I don’t mind accepting blame, but I really would like to have a lower fee and go to traffic school. If I go to court, do I just appear on the date scheduled or do I have to contact them prior to that to let them know? I am a little confused. Thanks for your help!

  19. Right, but is there anyway to reduce the fine? Since I can’t go to that traffic school since i am out of state. Also the county is the hayward police department.

  20. Roger,

    Thanks for the info. I am going to Bryant Street in the AM tomorrow (Monday). If you get to this in time, it sounds like I need to ask for an arraignment in front of a judge with the clerk correct?

    Geoff H

  21. Geoff,

    Try this:
    “Your honor, I will plead guilty to a Municipal Code violation since I am a commercial driver and a point on my record puts my job in jeopardy.” Now, if you violation is pretty minor (most are), try adding, “If the muni code violation carries a penalty of a lesser amount in view of the fact that I
    a. was traveling slower than 10 mph while turning right . . . or
    b. crossed the limit line just a fraction of second after the light turned red (exact time is on the data bar).
    c. did not pose a safety hazard in light of the fact no competing traffic had moved until I had cleared the intersection….

    Decide for yourself whether to push for a lower fine.

    Let me know what happens. Best to get this done at arraignment, but I would still not plead Guilty unless to a Muni Code violation. You get a second bite at the apple at trial where cops may negotiate this down before your case is called.

  22. Roger,

    I was on Van Ness this morning and the light turned yellow. I was already late for work for I decided to speed up to make the light. Right as I entered the intersection, the light turned red and I thought, “wow, that was a really short yellow.” Then of course, the flashes came on, which made me think, “oh crap, I just got busted by the red light cameras.” The car is registered under my name but also my ex’s name since we bought the car together. The car’s registration is still listed at my ex’s address since I’ve moved out. I’m awaiting a ticket to be mailed to his address, but I’m wondering if you’d have any idea who the ticket will be mailed to, my friend or me? Do they ever send out tickets with two names on the ticket when the vehicle is co-registered?

  23. Sophie – The ticket must be mailed within 15 days of the infraction. Officer will pull the car’s registration and then look for the DMV photo of the owner to see if it is similar to the driver’s photo. It will be mailed to the registered owner’s address. It sounds like you are on good enough terms to ask you ex to contact you next week or so if there is any ticket received at your previous address. By all means, if it is in His Name, ask him to NOT mail the ticket back “nominating” you as the culprit. Just email me when something arrives in the mail. Now, since you are pretty sure that the camera “flashed” you and you do not hear anything in 2 weeks, also let me know. There may be a ticket in your name or in the name of your Ex but which was undeliverable because the address on file for both of you is not current. There are ways to check whether there is a ticket in your name.
    rlouisj@aol.com

  24. This past Sunday we were driving on Lombard St and stopped at the stoplight. At this point I picked up my phone to look at the gps and then there were 2 flashes. We were not moving and the other light was yellow but it seemed that the flash was facing us. Any idea on what might have happened in this case? The unfortunate part is we were driving a rental car so it could be a while before we see or hear of anything if ever. Thanks!

  25. Correction: after some google map digging it was at the intersection of Richardson Ave and Francisco St. We were traveling on Richardson Ave into the City from the GG. After looking at the street view perhaps the camera is for both directions of travel?

  26. Joel, If your ticket is from Hayward, I can probably help you a bit. By the way, was your ticket for a Right Turn on Red?? In that case I can really help you. It would be better to email me: rlouisj@aol.com

  27. Ryan: I don’t know which approaches are photo enforced at Richardson and Francisco. Call the Police Dept. They will tell you. If your direction of travel is photo enforced, let’s assume the rental car company gets a “snitch” ticket in the mail the week of Sept. 26. They probably will mail the “nomination” back to the police dept. Then you will probably get a ticket in the mail. Deal with it at that time by posting an blog entry or email me. In the meantime, why not contact the Rental Car Company. What is their policy? It would be great if they would just hand the snitch ticket to you and allow you to deal with it. (Toss it). Let me know if you contact the rental car company and what they say. rlouisj@aol.com

  28. So I blew right through a red light on park presidio & geary and got my photo taken. I have read all the comments on here but still had to ask… I have a BMW disign as a front plate= no real front plate. Will I still get a convition?
    Thanx

  29. Mike….Most, if not all, SF cameras photograph the front license plate. I don’t know about each camera.

    Ticket must be mailed within 11 days or so. If you live at the mailing address of the registered owner then check your mailbox 7 -14 days from the date of the camera activation. Relax until you receive a ticket.

    Roger

    If you are still worried in 3 or 4 weeks, check with the court and see if there is a ticket in your name.

  31. Is San Francisco still offering, before you appear before the judge if you’re fighting the ticket, a reduced fine on red light camera? If I was reading from an accurate website, the fine for red light camera is $480 now! This is so outrageous, and then with the costs of traffic school. What a nightmare. I am sure that I entered on a yellow. I was not driving very fast, either, because there had just been two firetrucks blaring by us and everyone had slowed because of it. I was aware of one flash when I was about 3/4 through it (that was probably the one taken of my face). Don’t remember a first one. Oh, this was at 6th & Bryant. I was so stunned because I thought I was okay, but I am so pissed it happened. However, I know that if I were to try to fight it, I probably wouldn’t win.

    Another website said that if you don’t respond to the ticket, never look it up on the computer (they apparently know if you look at it), keep ignoring it, and it will go away. Any thoughts?

  32. Melanie….Did you actually receive a citation in your name? You did not say. There are instructions on the ticket on how to view the photos and video from your home computer. That should tell you if you ran the red or not. Start with that. I never heard that if you ignore the ticket it will go away except perhaps in Los Angeles.

  33. No, I haven’t gotten one yet, but I have this horrible feeling one is coming. This happened just yesterday, and I’m just sick about it. When my husband did a “California stop,” his appeared within a week.

    Do “they” review the photos/video before sending to make sure it’s valid or not? because I’ve heard both, that they don’t and that they do. When my husband did a “California stop,” his appeared within a week.

    Also, I want to know if you still get offered up front, if you show up to court, an offer of a reduction of the fine + traffic school.

  34. Melanie….Chill. Visit highwayrobbery.net to look up answers to just about any question you may have now or later. Ticket must be mailed within about 11 days. Normally you might get it in 7-14 days. It should be mailed to the address on file for the registered owner or perhaps to the address on the driver’s license. In the meantime, if you feel you must do something or worry start reading the website. When and if you or hubby receives a ticket put up a new posting.

  35. Roger,

    I received a traffic ticket on 8th and Harrison a few weeks back and wanted to get your input. I did run the red light, but it was because of an ambulance approaching from behind me with its sirens on. I thought it would be better for me to barely run a red light and pull over to the side of the road than to obstruct the ambulance’s path. Unfortunately, you cannot see the ambulance in the photos because it was a bit too far behind me, but the photo does show another vehicle running the red light (presumably for the same reason).

    Do you think this is worth fighting? Does the camera continue to take footage of the intersection after the red light ends? That way the court would be able to see that the ambulance was approaching from behind me. I don’t think there’s any other way to track down that ambulance other than from the video.

    Thanks in advance for the help.

  36. Tony: Yes, to me, the ticket is worth fighting. You will need to go to trial. This can be done by Trial by Written Declaration. Either pay the bail up front and have the window clerk enter a plea of Not Guilty, or go to arraignment and plead not guilty. If you go in person to Arraignment, it does not hurt to ask for the ticket to be dismissed based on unclear photo. Email with ticket info if you want an opinion on that. I would find out what ambulance calls were active at that date, time, and place. To me this sounds doable. Call the police and ask what other camera activations there were at that intersection within 5 minutes of your time. They have this information. Will they look it up? I don’t know. A subpoena may uncover this info but I am unfamiliar with how, exactly, to do that. Extensions may be easily granted to extend the time to obtain the evidence. Let me know if you will be pursuing this.
    rlouisj@aol.com

  37. i just got flashed today… but i definitely KNOW it was a mistake… there was a red light camera on the intersection going straight… i was about to make a right turn on the second right lane… and my arrow was GREEN… there was a shuttle car on the far right right next to me taking over two lanes… so by the time the arrow going to the right turned GREEN i pulled out and made a wide right turn to avoid the shuttle on my right side cez he was too close to my car… but i guess i set off the camera because i guess that i turn wide enough that i cencored the camera for the intersection going straigt and that light was red… am i gonna recieve that ticket? cez i know that if they review the photos that they’ll see that my signal was on going to the right when they review the photo or if i recieve the ticket would i beat this to court? because i definitely know i DID NOT ran a red light….. i;m just stressing out right now…..

  38. p.s. the street was Octavia and Oak and the camera was recieving the intersection going straight but i was making a right turn on a GREEN light arrow… are the cameras or that camera can determined wether my arrow was green or red?? this is 7am and i for sure KNOW that that arrow was green but i have this lil doubt that it was red cez i’m stressing out…

  39. Bhok: Each camera activation is reviewed by an officer. If it looks like a violation occurred and the officer can match the driver’s license photo to the camera image a ticket will be mailed. (or it might be mailed to the reg. owner of the vehicle). Check your mail box for about 14 days or the mailbox of the owner. Then worry if you get a ticket. Repost if necessary.

  40. First thank you for the service you do. We really appreciate your time. I ran a red on Octavia and Oak and had my picture taken. I know this because of the multiple flash. This happened back on July 31, 2011. Like Bhok I’ve been stressing out as well but not as much anymore. So far I have not received anything. Should I keep stressing? I’m hoping that the cameras on Octavia/Oak intersection were not working since they have not sent me an expensive ticket. Is there still a possibility for a ticket in the mail?

    Thanks again.

  41. Rich – camera ticket must be mailed in about 11 days, if I recall. Maybe it was mailed to the registered owner. Who was the car registered to? If you want to just put the matter to rest call the court and ask if there is a ticket in your name.

  42. Roger,

    I recently recieved a red light camera ticket in the mail in san diego,ca. I was making a left turn. My ticket has the four photos, one showing me right behind the line when the light had JUST turned red at the time of 0.5 seconds before crossing it. And then again when I was already in the middle of the intersetion at 1.8 seconds. My ticket is 480 and I dont have the option of going to traffic school, nor can I afford to pay that much for a ticket!

    I want to know if its worth fighting, because really?, .5 of a second. I read somewhere online that the delay time for the red light camera to take a picture is .3 of a second because they dont expect people to be able to brake that fast but it will start taking pictures at .5. It practically takes a whole second to blink how do they expect someone to stop within half a second. I do admit I probably should have tryed not to make the light but at the moment It seemed that I would be in the clear. It didnt look like the yellow light was going to change right then.

    Since me running the red light is so close to the delay time will that make any difference? And in the video it shows I was completely out of the intersetion before the traffic started moving again, would that help at all?
    I am really considering trying to fight it, the thought of by .2 of a second I couldve possibly saved 480 dollars is haunting me.What do you think? Any light that you can shine on my situation is greatly appreciated!

    Thank you a bunch!

  43. Hello,

    Received a “NOTICE TO APPEAR” ON 9/1/2011 16 days after the violation date of 8/16/2011.
    This in the city of San Mateo , CA.
    Do you believe this qualifys for demurring (CVC 40518)???
    I think it does but not sure.

    thnx

  44. Rose – I don’t know the yellow light timings at each camera intersection in LA but most likely they are at or above the minimum. There is a warm up time to different type of lights – incandescent vs. lcd or whatever but I think I read it was around 1/10th second. All this can possibly be raised at trial, but to have a reasonably good chance of winning, would take an immense amount of research with no guarantee of success. Is there an easy way for you to see how San Diego camera cases are handled? Spend an afternoon in court perhaps observing. I am pretty familiar with a few courts here in Alameda County. One seems to have RLC officers plea bargain in the hallway to a lower violation (1/2 price). Other commissioners generously allow community service. Is that an option? Nearly everyone I talk with does not use the ID defense – does the image on the ticket resemble you beyond a reasonable doubt. I tell violators they are the worse judge of the clarity of the photo.
    Don’t forget Trial by Written Declaration. Ask for Community Service or even a conviction of a less included offense: 21461, I believe, “failure to obey a traffic control device. Or ask for 4 months to pay if CS is declined. Some community service work can actually be rewarding, fun, and lead to unintended consequences which can be beneficial.

    Saying you were ONLY 1/2 second late; or there was no cross traffic (in my opinion) hurts your case and does not help you at all. It begs the commissioner to NOT allow leniency since it would be to approve that you have the right to determine which laws to obey.
    read more at highwayrobbery.net

  45. I was 4th car in left turn lane. When turning i saw 2 or 3 white flashes. The light seemed to be yellow for very short period, it seemed, and was red before my turn was completed. if i entered on yellow but finished on red, will i get a ticket? what is best way to fight this ticket in Escondido, California.

  47. C. Anthony: If your front bumper is just a little past the limit line or first line of a crosswalk when the light turns from yellow to red, you are OK. Ticket must be received by registered owner within 15 days, if one was issued.

  48. Roger J.

    The postmark on envelope, signature of declarant and certificate of mailing are all the same date….9/1/2011.
    16 days after the violation date.

    I submitted the TBWD forms (filled out and copied) yesterday.
    Hoping for a good result.

  50. I saw the camera flashes on 1st of september in sf.. I still haven’t got the ticket. I had changed the vehicle registration address online, just a few days ago to my new apartment address. And my driver’s license address was not successfully updated through online address change service. (I found that out later). Immediately next day I went to DMV and filled up the form to update my driver license address. Anyways its been almost 45 days and I still haven’t received the ticket at my new address or even at the old address (I know the landlord). What if it is lost in mail? How do I find out if there is pending ticket on my name? I checked my driving record and it says no conviction and no failure to appear.

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